good-bye

[tonydca]

On extremely slippery black ice at highway speeds my van likes to go instantly, wildly sideways at the slightest provocation.

Not sure I'd be planning to go highway speeds over black ice in *any* vehicle short of an M1 Battle tank...

[Stewart]

It catches you by surprise sometimes.

[tinykiss]

Perhaps my tires were too full. I deliver the mail and have used a L300 and no issues. I have switched to the L400 and rolled it this winter so far (Actually just 4 days ago). Bad snow storm and was only going maybe 50kmh at the most and she lost control. Ended up on it's side in the ditch. Tires are rated for extreme winter too. Maybe I need to run the tires with less air....My l300 never seemed to have that issue but this one likes to slide all over the place.....

Any other suggestions?

TK

[Mr. Flibble]

Always remember 4X4 helps you go, it does not help you stop. I nearly rolled my old Toyota 4Runner with good tires on an icy patch. I was lucky. For this reason I intentionally drive in 2WD to remind myself to be careful. Invariably, I find that vehicles in the ditch on the w ay to the ski hill are always 4WD. Never had a problem with my old Hyundai Excel, but that was because I had to drive it conservatively, it did not have much getup and go! :)

[CloudMountain]

I got Hakka winter tires with studs and I still drive cautious. ABS would give me greater peace of mind.

[thedjjack]

ABS ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I cannot stand abs. Worst thing added to cars in snow or loose gravel. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Did I mention I hate ABS....even worse if you want to fix it.....

Studies have actually shown you are more likely to be in an accident with ABS.

[1994delicaman]

ABS ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I cannot stand abs. Worst thing added to cars in snow or loose gravel. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

agreed

[konadog]

Wasn't ABS a fad that got dropped after a couple of years...? One of those things that sounds sorta good in theory but falls shot in the real world.

[dfnder]

Sorry to hear of your accident, hope the transition to your new vehicle is relatively smooth.

On the winter driving... I think that new tires at a little lower pressure is the best combo.

[jaggedfish]

One comment on slowing/stopping in 4WD... it is actually safer to have the van in 2WD when going down hill or stopping in icy conditions. The 'braking' power of the engine can actually cause loss of control when you lift your foot off the accellerator pedal. The sudden slowing of the wheels (all four) on icy surfaces breaks the grip of the tires on ice and thus rendering steering useless until the van slows to the point where the tires regain their grip (could be too late at that point). You can drive out of this if you have the presence of mind and the practiced skill but the natural reaction is to put your foot on the brake rather than on the gas which makes matters worse.

It could be argued that in 2WD you are slowing only the back wheels which could cause a spin but if you keep your hand on the shifter and use neutral, the wheels will regain traction sooner allowing you to recover sooner with far less dramatic fashion.

Subtle pedal movements help to keep control.

When stopping, I roll off the pedal gently to allow the tires to maintain as much grip as possible then I prefer to put the transmission in neutral (or depress the clutch in a standard) as I approach the point I want to stop to prevent the engine from driving the wheels at idle speed.

Driving downhill on an icy road, I tend to have the van in 2WD, use the engine to hold the van to lower speeds and be prepared to throw it in neutral if the backend comes around. I haven't tested the braking traction in AWD to see if there is a difference in control (or loss of) but that is limited to the L400 only so could be treated separately as the unfortunate incident in this case involves an L300.

[Firesong]

Throwing this out there... 4WD does help you stop
IF
you happen to have a manual transmission :)
At least I think so. As I gear down the wheels are all going the same
speed. I hate how automatic transmissions rev down and
can cause some shearing to the side.
Anyway, just my personal thoughts on my van.

FS

[jaggedfish]

Throwing this out there... 4WD does help you stop IF you happen to have a manual transmission

Correct to a certain degree. Provided you feather (slip) the clutch to allow the wheel speed to slow to the engine speed (similar to braking). Personally I would prefer to control by braking as the balance of braking between front and back is intentionally not equal whereas clutching/engine compression is. The biggest catch at speed is just dropping your foot off the gas pedal (auto or manual tranny) or gearing down (without feathering the clutch on a manual). The engine will immediately slow all 4 wheels (in 4WD) causing the tires to slide and thus lose steering control.

[thedjjack]

If you are in 4x4 mode the axles are tied together so if you lock a axle both axles have to stop if it is a part time system.


For example in part time 4x4 if you pull the emergency brake it slows both axles....

[jessef]

Control over a slippery surface in 4x4/4WD is good going forward and reverse but sideways slippage is better controlled in 2WD be it front or rear wheel drive but can vary depending on the contact surface/speed/etc.. too many variables.

The one constant you can control that is to your advantage as a driver is the tire type and pressure, both of which if used effectively can help to regain control in situations where the vehicle is sliding.

[nxski]

Rear Wheel Drive really helps if you're understeering. Slam the gas on, spin the rear end out to where you want it and lift off. Works charms around the hairpin corners in my neighbourhood. In snow I barely ever have my wheels gripping (unless there's an object that could potentially be hit).