Cant get out of 4x4

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

If you can't get out from 4WD for a while, change 4wd front axle sensor .
This is the only solution for that problem.

If you are aware of flashing light or feel uncomfortable/annoying at flashing light, replace 4WD vacuum solenoid.
Or you don't need to replace this if you don't mind.

Those are common for incoming delica L400, but we fix them all the time through replacing parts.
Simple is that.

Steven

[tonydca]

Here's the best article I could find on the web (I'm assuming the basics of the system aren't that different between Gen1 and 2 Delicas, Pajeros, etc.):

http://4wd.blogeasy.com/?themeID=37034

Here's one with a better version of the wiring diagram:

http://www.mdocuk.co.uk/forums/wap/thre ... c_id=24189

(Caveat: I can read a wiring diagram, but I've never taken a Delica transmission/transfer case apart, so I'm only going by what I am reading...)

From what I can tell, the centre diff lock/unlock mechanism is indeed mechanically connected to the selector lever on the floor. But there is something that still puzzles me about it. Read on...

The 2WD/4WD (2H vs. 4H/4HLc/4LLc) operation is not. It seems instead to read the position of the selector lever. The engaging/disengaging of the front differential/axles is done by a pair of vacuum solenoids moving an actuator rod back and forth into and out of the front diff mechanism. (per the wiring diagrams - two vacuum solenoid valves shown)

If the floor selector lever is read in the rear-most position, activate the solenoid pulling the rod out and flash the top two wheels on the display.

Once the "free-wheel" sensor on the front diff (however that works) shows that the axle is indeed disconnected, switch the lights off.

Likewise, if the floor selector lever is anywhere forward of 2H, activate the solenoid pushing the rod in and flash the top two wheels on the display.

Once the "free-wheel" sensor on the front diff shows that the axle is indeed connected, switch the lights on continuous.

This seems to jive with the way my van's system operates. If I put the tranny (column) in Neutral and then move the floor selector lever from 2H to 4H, the green lights start to flash. As soon as I drop the tranny back into Drive, I hear a *click* of the actuator rod going in, and the green lights go on continuous. The same deal when switching into 2H from 4H.

But as far as the centre diff lock goes, my *hunch* is that the actual engagement mechanism is some kind of similar actuator driven mechanically by pushing the floor selector lever from 4H into 4HLc. There is no vacuum control for it, so it must be mechanical in nature.

However, just because you have moved the actuator to "try" and lock/unlock the diff doesn't in my mind mean that the parts within the centre diff are actually locked or unlocked.

I'm believing that the centre diff has a sensor similar in operation to the free-wheel sensor on the front axle connect. And if the position of the engagement mechanism (as read back by the Centre Diff Lock Detection Switch) doesn't match the free/locked status returned by the Centre Diff Lock Operation Detection Switch (again, from the wiring diagram), then the orange light will flash, instead of being solid on or off. Otherwise, there is no point in having such a sensor - if moving the lever was 100% guaranteed in locking/unlocking the centre diff, then why bother checking it?

In the end, this thread from the UK forum talks at one point about checking the lock/unlock status of the various parts by jacking up one or both front wheels:

http://www.mdocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopi ... 112642&sid...

And if I were confident that my sensors/vacuum lines were all wired up correctly, and I've just done something unusual offroad and now my Orange light won't stop flashing, I do those jack-'er-up tests first to see how the internals are actually working, rather than blindly trust the floor selector lever position.

Subject to change without notice, all standard disclaimers apply...

[jessef]

There is no center differential.

What we have in the L400/Gen 2 Pajero/Montero's is a transfer case that has an inline viscous coupler (enables use of awd). There is a shifter on it. The shifter comes up through the floor and is the 4wd mode selector stick you see inside.

As mentioned before , the solenoids operate the engagement/disengagement of the front axle in relation to the front driveshatft - transfer case.

However, just because you have moved the actuator to "try" and lock/unlock the diff doesn't in my mind mean that the parts within the centre diff are actually locked or unlocked.

When you move the shifter, you a physically moving the shift fork inside the transfer case. No solenoids, no electronics. Physical connection.

This system is similar to many 4x4's. Jeep Cherokee, Nissan Pathfinder, Toyota 4Runner, etc ...

What this thread is turning into is confusing for someone looking for the basics on how to operate the 4wd system on an L400.

[tonydca]

There is no center differential.

I can't argue that. As I said, I've never had one apart. However, all the Mitsubishi manuals talk about a Center Differential, so that's what I was going by. I figure they put it together, they oughta know.

When you move the shifter, you a physically moving the shift fork inside the transfer case. No solenoids, no electronics. Physical connection.

Yep, I agree 100%. Your left arm and the floor slector lever appear to be doing the mechanical work done by the vacuum solenoids on the front axle.

What this thread is turning into is confusing for someone looking for the basics on how to operate the 4wd system on an L400.

I think the original question was along the lines of what could have caused the OP's CDiff and FrontAxle lights to suddenly be flashing after some offroad work, and can he drive home like that.

From looking around online, I can't convince myself 100% to trust the floor lever selector, especially if there is suspicion of wear/damage to the drivetrain.

If it was impossible to move the floor selector lever out of 4HLc into 4H without guaranteeing that the system was now in awd mode, then Mitsubishi would not have bothered to put a sensor in the transfer case. They would have just hooked up the orange light to the position of the floor lever.

But they didn't. And sometimes that orange light flashes. Which, in my book, means something is wrong.

Maybe the sensor is bad, maybe a connector/wire is bad, maybe (for the front wheel lights) the vacuum solenoids are broken/leaking, or the actuator rod is stuck or ???

Or maybe, just maybe, something inside the transfer case is binding up, refusing to let the mechanism free itself, even though the lever is pulled back.

Same as if I pull the pins out of my front door hinge, the door won't immediately fall off by itself; it needs a nudge first.

Believe me, I'd love to find an exploded diagram/video showing how the CDiff lock mechanism works and eat my words, but I can't.

And given the risk of damage you mentioned earlier, I'm just saying I'd do a physical test on it before I drove it home on the pavement.

[psilosin]

There is no center differential.

What we have in the L400/Gen 2 Pajero/Montero's is a transfer case that has an inline viscous coupler

The viscous coupler was a source of much frustration on the VW Syncro when I had one of those...if your tires were even slightly mismatched from wear front/rear the VC would always lock up when it shouldn't have (ie tight turns in a parking lot) and/or the silicone inside of it wore out after 10+ years either leaving it permanently open (2wd) or locked (4wd) instead of AWD. And it wasn't servicable. And it was $$$$. Is the Mitsu VC servicable or at least not $1000 if it goes tits up?

So what is the mechanical mechanism that locks the VC to true 4WD mode? Is it done by the shift fork itself moving a pin or does the shift fork trigger a switch that activates the vacumn solenoid(s) and the vacuum solenoids themselves enable/disable a locking pin?

[tonydca]

The vacuum solenoids appear to be only for engaging the front axle.

I'm guessing that the VC/CentreDiff/whatever is locked directly by moving the selector lever from 4H to 4HLc, ramming the fork/pin/actuator directly into the mechanism.

But from what I've read, that's nice and simple and rugged and a neat design, but no guarantee that the mechanism is actually locked or unlocked.

Depending on whether the mechanism is sticky, dirty/under load, it might need a bump or jiggle to actually engage or disengage.

One of the UK threads even recommends gently rolling one or two wheels up onto a curb then back off again to give the drivetrain a little shakeup. Can't says I needed to try.. yet...

[jessef]

Too much to quote so I'll repeat the important bits

1. Selectrac Jeep's are the same as the L400/Paj 4wd systems and there is simply a small light that looks like a 4x4 when you shift into 4wd modes. Doesn't matter which one.

Mitsubishi's INDICATOR lights are only that. INDICATORS.

Pretend the indicator dash lights burnt out and are not working for a moment and read below ...

When you shift the floor shifter ...

2H to 4H - the shifter physically pushes the internal shift fork inside the transfer case engaging the viscous coupler (otherwise known as : awd - all wheel drive - full time 4wd - quattro - syncro and center differential lock) AND actuates the solenoid (by the fuse box) which actuates the vacuum solenoid on the front axle.

This mode 2H to 4H and vice versa is shiftable 'on the fly' meaning while the vehicle is in motion.

You will feel a light click (front axle engaging) and then the steering wheel will have more resistance to it while cornering.

To engage true 4x4 or 4 wheel drive , you have to stop the vehicle and either put it in park or neutral. Then you have to push the lever forwards and sideways to 4HLc to enter into 4x4 mode. Like above, the shifter moves the internal shift fork inside the transfer case. All mechanical movements. And like above, the solenoids are actuated for the front axle.

You cannot shift into the above mode 4HLc or 4HLlc while the vehicle is in motion. That is the safety feature. If you force it hard enough, it is possible but it would take a lot of force on the shifter and you'll hear some crunching.

So, putting it simply.

Trust the floor shifter as it is a direct mechanical control of the transfer case.

If you are in 2H and feel heavy resistance on the road while cornering, likely the front axle solenoid has not disengaged.

Now you can look at the lights on the dash.

Solid - you're in that gear
Flashing - you've made a switch or the solenoid has not engaged/disengaged yet.

If the lights keep flashing, try tapping on the brake pedal which moving forward or backing up and then moving forward.

If that does not work, one of three things are possible (like Assiniboine said)

1. The control solenoid(one or both) is broken and needs to be replaced
2. The vacuum switch on the front axle is broken and needs to be replaced
2. The connection in the back of the instrument cluster is loose and needs to be either cleaned or replaced

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

Jfarsang said,

If that does not work, one of three things are possible (like Assiniboine said)

1. The control solenoid(one or both) is broken and needs to be replaced
2. The vacuum switch on the front axle is broken and needs to be replaced
2. The connection in the back of the instrument cluster is loose and needs to be either cleaned or replaced

That's what I am saying.
We can test what's wrong in your system.

Steven

[tonydca]

So, putting it simply.
Trust the floor shifter as it is a direct mechanical control of the transfer case.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree with you except for one thing:

Why are there two sensors on the wiring diagram for the VC/CDiff lock indicator?

Presumably one reads the floor shifter position, and the other is on the transfer case, looking at some operation within the transfer case itself.

If the two are sending different signals back to the transmission ECU, the dash lights will flash.

If the dash indicator lights were just idiot lights, they would never flash; they'd just go on solid whenever you move the floor shifter. Like the column shifter indicator. (L2DNRP)

What's the point of the second sensor?

I know I'm beating this to death, but since driving with the VC/CDiff locked seems to be about the only way to wreck an otherwise bulletproof drivetrain, I'd like to know for sure.

I guess I'm kinda OCD that way...

[jessef]

You're confusing the terminology.

Transfer case (box that connects the rear driveshaft to the front enabling p/t and/or ft 4WD).

Center (locking) differential term has different meaning in different vehicles.

Subaru has a center differential (like the front/rear on the Mitsu's) with a complex viscous coupler inside (clutch plates with silicone - simple explanation).

Mitsubishi L400/Pajero/Montero has a transfer case BUT some people and some material refer to the transfer case as a center differential.

Same term, completely different description.

The L400's transfer case (for simplicity sake) is the same as the L300. You have 2, 4 high and 4 low wheel drive modes. PLUS, they added a viscous coupler (like the subaru's) in line by lengthening the entire transfer case.

One sensor is for the VC (viscous coupler) AWD mode (4H on the lever)
One sensor is for the 4x4 high/low gears inside the transfer case (4HLc/4HLlc)

2H - 2 wheel drive (rear wheels spin)
4H - all wheel drive (all wheels spin and VC enables slip between front/rear axles)
4HLc - p/t 4 wheel drive 4x4 high locked (offroad use only)
4HLlc - p/t 4 wheel drive 4x4 low locked (offroad use only)

[ilikemax]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. Van seemed to sort itself out and now seems to switch properly between all of the 4x4 settings. I learned alot from this post!

max

[tonydca]

There is no centre differential.

Mitsubishi L400/Pajero/Montero has a transfer case BUT some people and some material refer to the transfer case as a center differential.

Same term, completely different description.

The L400's transfer case (for simplicity sake) is the same as the L300. You have 2, 4 high and 4 low wheel drive modes. PLUS, they added a viscous coupler (like the subaru's) in line by lengthening the entire transfer case.

From this site: http://www.awdwiki.com/en/super+select/

Kinda looks like a center diff in the transfer case to me...

All I'm saying is that perhaps the second "CDiffLock" sensor (the one on the Xfer case, not the one on the selector lever) is there to inform you if something inside the Transfer Case is binding/hung up despite the selector lever getting moved. That's all. If not, I still don't see the point of having it there. (there appear to be 5 sensors in total for reading the various states of the Xfer case).

But as I said, I've never had one apart, so I can't picture what this sensor inside the Xfer case is actually looking for...

[Mr. Pistachio]

If I may pitch in after all this discussion:

jfarsang said:

If the lights keep flashing, try tapping on the brake pedal which moving forward or backing up and then moving forward.

For me, 4H to 2H as always disengage when there's no load on the engine/wheel. By that I mean foot of gas pedal and just cruzin'. The feel I get is by that action, there's no pressure on the component and only at that time, 4H will disengage.

Anyway, that MY experience with MY van. Hopefully it can help you.

Cheers Mate
Antoine

[tonydca]

If I may pitch in after all this discussion:

jfarsang said:

If the lights keep flashing, try tapping on the brake pedal which moving forward or backing up and then moving forward.

For me, 4H to 2H as always disengage when there's no load on the engine/wheel. By that I mean foot of gas pedal and just cruzin'. The feel I get is by that action, there's no pressure on the component and only at that time, 4H will disengage.

Anyway, that MY experience with MY van. Hopefully it can help you.

Cheers Mate
Antoine

Same for me in 2H/4H. That's why I'm trying to uinderstand how the VC/Centre Diff mechanism actually locks and unlocks; I get the same behaviour from 4H to 4HLc.

If I just move the floor lever into 4HLc, the orange light starts flashing, but I often have to on/off the gas or roll it forward/back for the light to go on solid. I have to believe that there is something else happening inside the transfer case.

Tony.

[MardyDelica]

psilosin = if your indicator still falsjing it need to replace just the vacuum sensor not a big problem.
it wont hurt or damge your tranmission:
hi guys if ok will pitch in to this topic:
try to turn it off then step on the brake then engage it:
maybe it might work. some time it happen to me i did move the lever back and forth then
it release
need to step on the brake if possible and then put it in park or neutral
so what happen:
hope this help
Cheers;
Mardy