Help to confirm odometer mileage?

[snelson]

Hey guys, checking out a vehicle tomorrow that claims to have only 30,000 kms on a 94. The seller says he has documentation to prove the mileage, but just curious if there are any ways to be 100% sure?
I have no reason to doubt the mileage, vehicle appears to be mint, but I'm just concerned that paper work can be easily faked these days.

Any suggestions on what I should be looking for or tip-offs that things may not be as they appear?

Thanks,
Steve

[pajerry]

Is this a private sale, or through a dealer?

[Artacoma]

Look for scratches or marks that might point to the dash around around the instrument cluster having been removed at some time. Also mechanics often put stickers in the engine bay area noting when major overhaul or tuneups have been done.

[Mr. Flibble]

Look for wear on the steering wheel, shifter and any spots that you hands normally touch. Same goes for the seats (although those are often replaced).

If there is excessive wear on the "hand contact points" then I would certainly be suspicious of the mileage.

Also, if it is a 94, listen for the timing chain "chuff chuff" sound. You want to get that fixed - but you won't hear it below 30,000 km methinks.

[fexlboi]

Also, if it is a 94, listen for the timing chain "chuff chuff" sound. You want to get that fixed - but you won't hear it below 30,000 km methinks.

I guess it is a l300, so no chain.
If it's a l400, then I would be very suspicious about the low mileage. You rarely see one under 70k km in Canada.

[pajerry]

I second the looking for 'wear' on the wheel and shifter. If there is, there is no way it has 30000kms.

Sounds too good to be true. And even if it is true, I'd rather buy a 100-180km vehicle that has had maintenance than a 30000km that hasn't seen a shop in 16-14yrs.

[thedjjack]

Remember that too low mileage is not always good!

If it was driven for short distance always never getting warmed up, the internal combustion engine does not like that at all!!!

Also, sitting for long periods can result in cylinder surface rust and piston ring sealing problems (had a government truck with only 80,000km on a 12 year old truck that would drink oil due to sitting).

Same goes for hoses, fluids, gear boxes etc....sitting is not always a friend.

[William]

Ask to see the export certificate and look at the bottom right corner. Should be some record of mileage there and a date

PM me your email address and I can send you a sample of one and where to look.

[jessef]

Only way to 100% prove vehicle mileage if you bought it new.

Like the others, steering wheel/driver's seat/pedals/seatbelt wear is a good sign but they are cosmetic and can be replaced easily.

Documents from overseas can be altered or fake. Can the importer verify the actual mileage ?

The only importer in Canada that I know of that offers true mileage logged JDM's is Wayne @ Luxury Imports. He used to be based in Calgary but moved to Ontario I believe.

I make a habit of buying or looking for small diesels (Pajero/Delica,etc) with around 100-130,000 km's on average because the majority need less mechanical work than unusually low mileage one's. There are exceptions to that rule, however they are far and few in between.

Could well be true mileage or the importer may just be going on the documents or the importer can be pulling your leg.

It's one of the three and hopefully the first one in your case.

I would definitely do more than average mechanical work/inspection on it specifically because of the low mileage. Engine seals, pump seals, compression test, vacuum/oil/rad hoses, fuel line/hoses, timing belts, pulleys, water pump, oil pan check, all fluids, wheel bearings, wheel axle seals, cv boots, shocks, balljoints/tie rods, ...

All of these things are consumables and regular maintenance items.

If the Delica has true 30,000 km's then you need to know when those few miles have been logged on the Delica. In the first few years of it's life, then sat for 10 years ? Or driven by a little old lady 2km's every few days for 15 years.

Everything I listed will need to be replaced unless the have been already done within the past 2-5 years while sitting in Japan.

The stickler is that anyone can tell you all of that has been done, but unless you really 'know', then you need to take a lot of things apart just to check and if the mechanic is that far into it, then may as well replace.

With all of that said, you can drive these rigs into the ground so all the mechanical things I would do, someone else may not bother or really care too much about it.

My experience and 2 cents.

[mararmeisto]

I agree with Jesse: buy it new if you want to be certain of the kilometers.

These kind of low-kilometer deals are available here, for some of the very same reasons, and it's not always the 'dream' one might expect. Why is low? What was wrong with it? How long did it sit? How much did it sit? Was it a town car that was always trapped in traffic (it was running, it just didn't get very far)? Little old lady? Miserly old man? Etc, etc, etc...

[snelson]

Hi guys, just wanted to say thanks for the great input. Really appreciate it and most confirm what I think deep down I already knew - be sucspicious or at least concerned with extremely low mileage imports.
I'm going to still take a look/drive - now more for curiousity sake - but it's good to have these suggestions of things to keep an eye out for and questions to ask.

[Green1]

The only importer in Canada that I know of that offers true mileage logged JDM's is Wayne @ Luxury Imports. He used to be based in Calgary but moved to Ontario I believe.

He has no better information to go on than any other importer does. Just because he CLAIMS that every other importer deals in roll-backs doesn't make his vehicles magically less likely to be so than anyone elses. He doesn't sit with every driver for the 15 years prior to export to make sure. He tends to deal in clean vehicles, but so do several other importers, and they don't charge his exorbitant fees either.

I have yet to hear of anyone with a verifiable case of odometer tampering coming out of Japan, though many people claim that the large number of low mileage vehicles is proof in itself, these people simply don't understand Japan. Japan is a small and crowded country where owning a vehicle is often more a status symbol than a transportation method, they have excellent public transit, and most people use it more than their personal vehicle. add to this the fact that we can cherry pick the best of the best to buy and export to Canada, and you end up seeing a lot of genuinely very low mileage vehicles.

As for "signs of odometer tampering" people say to look for wear, but that's not always a good indication... wear on EVERYTHING would likely indicate something fishy, but wear on just one component doesn't. Here's an example... person in Japan buys an aftermarket steering wheel for their delica (maybe they like woodgrain or something) they then discard the original. When it comes time to sell the vehicle they want to keep the aftermarket wheel for their next vehicle, or to sell separately because it's worth some actual money, because they don't have the original one lying around anywhere, they go to a junk yard and get a used one instead, now the used one is a little worn because it's out of a vehicle with 200,000km on it.... So you end up with a 30,000km vehicle with a 200,000km steering wheel, that doesn't mean the odometer is wrong, just that the wheel is worn. steering wheels, pedals, shifters are all common things to be replaced this way (especially if the vehicle looks to have been customized in other ways) now again, ALL of these things being worn is fishy, one or 2 of them may be simply replacements.

Delicas also seem to get used in Japan as "club houses" where people might hang out to (to get away from the Mrs?) hence the karaoke systems, tvs, etc. so sometimes a vehicle with a pristine drivetrain will show a fair amount of interior wear (on the seats and carpets) not because it was driven, but because people hung out in it. Now this also brings up a risk of lots of engine hours without distance being driven (which isn't good for a vehicle either) but it's not a guarantee either.

I guess basically what I'm saying is that 30,000km is quite believable, but there is never any guarantee (no matter who you bought from) And that even many of the "smoking guns" that other people may use to show a rolled back vehicle, aren't necessarily "proof" in and of themselves, but instead must be taken with the wider picture. (one worn component doesn't prove the whole vehicle is worn, only that that one component is.)

[Erebus]

I'd echo pretty much what others have said to look at. Look for too many bits & pieces that look suspiciously new, or suspiciously warn.

Mine had 24,000 km on it when I got it, and everyone who looked at it -- Kirkham saw it and swarmed it and took it for a test drive even before it made it home -- said "this is in showroom condition". So I believe the mileage.

They are out there, but they are rare. Yes there is a risk of it having sat for long periods. But maybe it was used once every two weeks for an 80 km trip. That wouldn't be bad at all. Once a year for a 2000 km would be bad.

Other than an IP that needed an overhaul at CVI due to leaks 2 years and 40000 km after I got it, mine has shown no sign that it sat too long.

[mararmeisto]

Hey guys, checking out a vehicle tomorrow...
Steve

So, it's been a couple of days. Did you go look at it? What did you think?