oxygen sensor

[Adam]

I need someone to point me towards a supplier of synthetic seals and gas lines before I go making a conversion who's fuel (veggie oil) is just going to quickly eat away all of the natural rubber parts of my van (much like bio-diesel does as I mentioned earlier.)

That's only your assumption..... Biodiesel is a strong solvent, veg oil is not. I've been driving for six months on veg oil with no noticeable degradation in my fuel lines or seals. I have inline glass filters before and after the IP and there is no material accumulating in either of them. In fact I have not heard of anyone having to change their fuel lines/seals when using a WVO kit. I think this misconception stems from the often confusion between WVO and Biodiesel which and two very different animals. BTW I've also been running B40 in my main diesel tank without any issues.

Maybe if you give us the name of the kit you are using we'd all be a little more enlightened on the subject, instead of us making assumptions about kits that are clearly different for the one you are testing.

[Wan]

It's too bad there seems to be so much hostility in this discussion. There really is no need for it. My "assumption" comment seems to have been shot right back at me, like a stab in return for a stab. I've spoken to many mechanics about the rubber part degradation that veggie oil and bio-diesel alike cause. I simply haven't learned the hard way and don't plan on it, so in that way, yes... I assume that my mechanics remain trustworthy in what they tell me, as they always have been.

I'm not using someone else's kit either. I've made my own.

[Adam]

Sorry about the perceived hostility, but I get a little tired of people without first or second hand experience spreading fear and uncertainty about the requirements of a WVO adaptation to their Delica. WVO will not quickly "quickly eat away all of the natural rubber parts of [your] van". Most people, even many mechanics do not know there is a difference between WVO and biodiesel. Even if your mechanics are clear the difference you have to ask yourself, how many WVO kit installations have they done or even seen, and how many of those have been on a Delica? I suspect the answers would be few, if any, and none.

[konadog]

I have a question about this wvo rotting rubber debate. Even if wvo DOES rot rubber, just how much rubber is involved? My 'assumption' is that there is a hose from the tank to the preheater, and from the preheater to the injectors. Is it way more complex than that? Couldn't one simply add replacing those hoses on to the maintenance schedule? Lots of things wear out, after-all. Would it be an epic or costly project? From what I have seen and heard about the wvo concept so far, it seems like a really simple and smart way to go

[Erebus]

...to integrate other clever gizmos and tweaks and driving habits

Yup, that's how you get the 10% plus improvement. A year or two ago, a couple of people drove a stock VW Golf? around the world and got phenomenal fuel economy, using nothing but driving technique. Do a search and see what you can do without gizmos. Shell was a sponsor.

[konadog]

Yup, that's how you get the 10% plus improvement.

This is very true. A few years ago I started shutting my motor off anytime I figured I would be stopped for more than 10 seconds, including red lights. I got two other buddies convinced to do the same an all three of us saved about 12%. Driving from Campbell River to Victoria on the new hwy. I slowed from 110 -120 to 90 - 100 and reduced fuel consumption by 25% - Yes 25%. I was stunned. Lots of habits can help. Just go easy. As John Muir of the Idiot's guide to vw's says, "brakes apply a negative function, use them sparingly" ie. anticipate ahead and take your foot off the gas and coast into the upcoming red light. It is actually a bit of a pet peeve of mine to hear people whine about the cost of fuel, which is still some of the cheapest in the world, and yet squander it away on fast starts and 130 kmh runs and roaring up to stops and braking at the last second. See it all the time

[Erebus]

Okay, did the googling to find the info.

Shell Fuel Economy World Record Challenge Comes to Canada

Part of the news release reads, "The Volkswagen manufacturer’s official consumption figure is 14.3 kms per litre and they have managed to break that figure by over 50 per cent."

Another link, to Shell Hong Kong information.

And from Volkswagen, The Shell Fuel Challenge

These links will take you to hints and tips on improving your fuel economy far more than the 5-10% that some of these expensive gizmos promise, and at absolutely no cost.

[sean]

Wan Wrote

I've spoken to many mechanics about the rubber part degradation that veggie oil and bio-diesel alike cause. I simply haven't learned the hard way and don't plan on it, so in that way, yes... I assume that my mechanics remain trustworthy in what they tell me, as they always have been.

Here is a description of hose specs. http://www.watson-marlow.com/pdfs-globa ... -us-01.pdf.
See Also http://www.delica.ca/forum/wvo-fuel-lin ... -1205.html

As for what your mechanics say, I wouldn't go by what anyone says except experts in the field. There are people who have been running WVO for 20 years. They are the ones with the best answers. I am a newbie and am only going on what these people say and studies I have read. Not a mechanic that has no knowledge or first hand experience. Most think you are talking about Biodeisel or have heard a horror story of WVO system destroying an engine. For example, the other day I was talking to mechanic from the VW dealer. He told to NEVER convert any vehicle to veg because it "will destroy it and it will never run well on it" I asked why he thought this way. He said he saw an engine once that had been ruined and he had heard other stories. I asked him what kind of filtering the person had done, was there water in the oil, what was the quality of the oil etc. He could answer none of these questions, and but was telling anyone who might ask at his shop these stories. He conceded that he may not have enough information to spread this story. So he was a certified mechanic who people looked to as an expert.

Sean

[Wan]

I'm lovin' this discussion more and more. Thanks for all the pointers guys.

So, sounds to me that I can consider putting down the $1500 for a WVO conversion after all. That's really great news. Perhaps I'll phone someone who does the conversions and see what's up. I have done zero research on who does installations and sells kits, but it appears loki was saying that CCA does so I'll call them. Any recommendations from experienced users?

I phoned Coombs Country Auto about the rubber parts wear and tear on bio-diesel issue, and the guy there thinks that it's not a huge concern at all. He says that everyone (including non-biodiesel users) are having to repair the seals on their pumps simply because the seals are about 16 years old so they're just brittle , and not because the biodiesel is tearing them apart.

I also spoke to yet a different mechanic (a journeyman friend of mine) who said that natural rubber parts haven't been in use for about 30 years and that I can be guaranteed that most of my rubber lines and seals are synthetic to some degree (and therefore resistant to bio-diesel degradation...??)

Does anyone else find this whole thing endlessly frustrating?!! I can't seem to get a straight answer from anybody! Everybody has a different take, or experience, or knowledge which makes this whole thing soooo frustrating and time consuming.

Anyway, I'll be checking out those links you guys posted, especially yours Sean. Thanks again.

Wan

[BCDelica]

Hello and welcome Wan.

BTW, on 15 year old diesel vehicles (treated) WVO doesn't necessarily dissolve synthetic parts, it more invades the permeability of the material resulting in a loss of physical strength. Even if after running WVO for years some older fuel lines may only show a barely measurable increase in wall diameter of the tubing.

ULSD without additives, ethanol (anyone remember a certain oil companies "a tiger in your tank" ads and the following mutli-million dollar class actions suits decades ago), and poorly washed biodiesel can have a very real solvent effect.

[mararmeisto]

I'm lovin' this discussion more and more... Does anyone else find this whole thing endlessly frustrating?!! I can't seem to get a straight answer from anybody! Everybody has a different take, or experience, or knowledge which makes this whole thing soooo frustrating and time consuming.
Wan

That's why it's called a forum: "a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged."

Now do you understand a little better why I asked in the first place what it was you're trying to do to your engine...

[jwfchase]

How about a litlle more RESPECT from some of the people that have been posting on this thread!? I am enjoying reading the discussion going on here, whether I buy into whatever is being said. But the amount of sarcasm and downright hostility in some of the posts is a little disturbing. Even if you think whatever the person is writing is completely out to lunch, how about presenting your rebuttal and information with a little more tact and RESPECT for a person you have probably never met in person, and know nothing, or very little, about? This seems to happen now and again on this site, and it's about the only negative thing on this awesome forum.
Vigorous discussion of opinions and knowledge= AWESOME!!!
Heated sarcasm and DISRESPECT= Sux a lot!!!

There's my vent, if anyone wants to bust my bollocks, I guess that's your right...

[Wan]

I have noticed the same, jwfchase, and it really spoils things for me on this forum... but on the brighter side it is certainly good practice in not taking anything personally!

All the hostility, scarcasms, and overall abrasive language is simply coming from someone whose buttons have been pushed. We all make our own "buttons" in the end, so I do my best to keep that in mind and look past the sharp edge of the language of others and know that it's their problem they're so worked up, not mine... and "they know not what they do" when they speak towards you in a way that implies that you're to blame for their negative emotions.

We are all, in the end, responsible for our own feelings.

Wan

P.S. Thanks for the welcome BCDelica!! ... and the good info about the WVO and bio-diesel. I needed that.

[surferboy]

I am currently working on saving and recycling some of the energy wasted by my methane producing french ass....any thoughts any one????

[jwfchase]

I am currently working on saving and recycling some of the energy wasted by my methane producing french ass....any thoughts any one????

Would the collection funnel be piped in directly from the driver's seat?