The OZ perspective

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nxski
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The OZ perspective

Post by nxski »

If Facebook is any indication, Australians know Delica's. Mark Delicashop Horner has informed me that 2" lifts are not ideal and that 20mm are a much better option. What is the Canadian point of view on this?

"Most try to get 2" through a lift kit whereas after years of driving these L400's since 2001 the 20mm lift and bigger tyres gets u about there without altering the geometry particularly at the front end. The Canadians have had these only for about 4 years (They have a 15 year old import rule) as well as very limited numbers in country."
Live the life you love, love the life you live...

Had: 1991 Mitsubishi Delica L300 SuperExceed, heavily modified (totalled by a drunk driver)
Have: 2011 Acura CSX manual, lightly modified
Want: Mitsubishi Pajero Evo

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Nicola Spurling
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nxski
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Re: The OZ perspective

Post by nxski »

Update:

"Yep but the L400 is a different beast as we know. optium size is 255 x 70 x 16 on a 16 x 7 rim, not the 31 x 10.5 x 15. Alternate and slightly smaller is the 30x 9.5.x 15 to get 12mm lift or the same in 16 245 x 70 x 16 (same result but need to change rims)"

"265 x 75 x 16 is same as 31 x 10.5 and 15 and is too big on the front esp if you want a AT tyre (square shaped) as must run muddies to fix the cornering problem at the front"
Live the life you love, love the life you live...

Had: 1991 Mitsubishi Delica L300 SuperExceed, heavily modified (totalled by a drunk driver)
Have: 2011 Acura CSX manual, lightly modified
Want: Mitsubishi Pajero Evo

http://nes-design-construction.com
http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/nicolas-spurling/46/b48/924

Nicola Spurling
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Re: The OZ perspective

Post by Manitoba deli »

Ball joint spacers change the geometry of the front suspension, as it changes the angle of one A-arm, but not the other, and puts added stress on the ball joint mounting area of the upper A-arm. A low profile bump stop, which will also give you up to 2" of lift, does not change the angles of the A-arms in relation to each other, it simply allows the suspension to travel further. The ones I've worked on, including 1"and 2" lift's, I've changed from ball joint spacers to low profile bump stops due to cracking A-arms on our famous Manitoba pot holes. I'm not sure how the ball joint spacers got the nickname "the poor mans lift", as the low profile bump stops are way cheaper, and available at any performance shop. Maybe it's because when we see one come in the shop, we say " Aww, that poor man is going to have to spend some money to replace those A-arms." Which type of lift were they talking about?
Jason
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nxski
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Re: The OZ perspective

Post by nxski »

Manitoba deli wrote:Ball joint spacers change the geometry of the front suspension, as it changes the angle of one A-arm, but not the other, and puts added stress on the ball joint mounting area of the upper A-arm. A low profile bump stop, which will also give you up to 2" of lift, does not change the angles of the A-arms in relation to each other, it simply allows the suspension to travel further. The ones I've worked on, including 1"and 2" lift's, I've changed from ball joint spacers to low profile bump stops due to cracking A-arms on our famous Manitoba pot holes. I'm not sure how the ball joint spacers got the nickname "the poor mans lift", as the low profile bump stops are way cheaper, and available at any performance shop. Maybe it's because when we see one come in the shop, we say " Aww, that poor man is going to have to spend some money to replace those A-arms." Which type of lift were they talking about?
Jason
I wish I knew this before I bought Jesse's kit. Is it pretty easy to swap over? How much are these bump stops and where does one get them? How difficult are they to install and how long does it take?
Live the life you love, love the life you live...

Had: 1991 Mitsubishi Delica L300 SuperExceed, heavily modified (totalled by a drunk driver)
Have: 2011 Acura CSX manual, lightly modified
Want: Mitsubishi Pajero Evo

http://nes-design-construction.com
http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/nicolas-spurling/46/b48/924

Nicola Spurling
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macro
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Re: The OZ perspective

Post by macro »

nxski wrote:
I wish I knew this before I bought Jesse's kit. Is it pretty easy to swap over? How much are these bump stops and where does one get them? How difficult are they to install and how long does it take?
Second this. Same for the L400 I assume?
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Re: The OZ perspective

Post by jessef »

Toyota, Ford, Mitsu owners have been lifting front end IFS with balljoint spacers for longer than Delica's have been in Canada.

There will always been someone on the internet that says "this is bad" and someone that says "this is good".

There are a lot of Delica's, Toyota's, Pajero's (same as L300/L400), Montero's, etc.. running 2+ " lift kits with front IFS balljoint spacers for over a decade.

For reference, an upper balljoint spacer that is flat top and bottom and measure over .95 inches will turn outwards. Under those specs with the 2 degree taper, it rolls the balljoint vertically in proportion to the upper a-arm.

What Jason is describing is the same problem the Ford, Toyo and Montero guys have been experiencing for years by using flat block 1.5+ inch upper balljoint spacers that roll the knuckle outwards causing excessive (more than stock) wear.

The bump stops don't need to be purchased and they do not 'raise or lift' the front end.

Taking the existing upper bumpstop and taking a hacksaw at it cutting effective 50% off will net you more downtravel in conjunction with a longer shock. Or you can purchase an already trimmed down one. I posted the link a few times back in more than one thread in the past.

Keep in mind guys... anytime you lift or modify a vehicle's suspension, you change more than one aspect. Ride, comfort, agility, parts wear, etc...

Comparing one vehicle to another over the internet is akin to an armchair quarterback, especially those thinking that Delica's are any different than Toyota pickup/4 runner's that we've had in Canada for decades. They are the same IFS and have the same issues.

The Russian's have been using, lifting and abusing Mitsu's for longer than anyone. They like them.

I would say look at your entire suspension sys and driveline to determine what issues you are experiencing.

Your personal experience may and most likely differ from someone else's with the same vehicle.

A general paintbrush does not work in this area.

Keep it simple.
Last edited by jessef on Thu May 09, 2013 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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macro
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Re: The OZ perspective

Post by macro »

Actually, come to think of it, I was looking at some very big L400's while I was in BC and a few of them had K-frame spacers. Usually about 1/2 to 1/3 of the overall lift. Wouldn't putting in 1" spacers pretty much solve any and all problems with any geometry change with a 2" lift? I would guess that would bring EVERYTHING closer to stock angles, not just upper balljoints.
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jessef
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Re: The OZ perspective

Post by jessef »

using a 2+ inch upper balljoint spacer with 1.25" subframe spacers would do it, however you're looking at a 3+ inch suspension lift then.

One other thing to consider is the balljoint itself. Just like tierods, swaybar links, there are OEM and aftermarket options.

They are not all the same, nor keep with the strength and build that the stock OEM's do.

So if you have a lifted vehicle with sub-par aftermarket suspension components, then you will run through them more than one's built to last that normally cost more up front.

It's not a single part equation. More variables to consider.
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macro
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Re: The OZ perspective

Post by macro »

jessef wrote:using a 2+ inch upper balljoint spacer with 1.25" subframe spacers would do it, however you're looking at a 3+ inch suspension lift then.

One other thing to consider is the balljoint itself. Just like tierods, swaybar links, there are OEM and aftermarket options.

They are not all the same, nor keep with the strength and build that the stock OEM's do.

So if you have a lifted vehicle with sub-par aftermarket suspension components, then you will run through them more than one's built to last that normally cost more up front.

It's not a single part equation. More variables to consider.
BUT if you had 1" subframe spacers you shouldn't need any balljoint spacers at all for a 2" lift, correct? I assume dropping the subframe is a bit more involved than balljoint spacers but if it would keep everything stock-ish it might not be a bad option for those with the know-how and gumption to do it.
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