Massive Cloud of Exhaust

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quadzilla
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Massive Cloud of Exhaust

Post by quadzilla » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:22 pm

Hello,

I bought myself a Delica for Christmas - haven't posted any photos yet.

When I fire up my Delica first thing in the morning (outside temperature between 2 and 5 C), I get a massive cloud of dark coloured exhaust. I wait for a 10 - 20 seconds after the glow plugs click on, then use the hand throttle - usually have to pull it all the way out to start my van. Starting generally takes less than 30 seconds from glow plug initiation to starting. After my van is warm, starting is easy and I don't have any gross-coloured exhaust. Is this normal starting behaviour? Does this sound like a glow plug issue? Should I being waiting longer after the glow plugs click on?

Any suggestions / thoughts would be helpful.

Thanks.

EricN
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Re: Massive Cloud of Exhaust

Post by EricN » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:36 pm

Any chance you are waiting too long to crank? My glow plug relay clicks around 5 seconds. 10-20 definately seems way too long. Most mornings I just turn the key, count to 5, forget about waiting for the click, crank it for half a second for it to fire, add a bit of throttle after it fires just to keep the thing at around 1000 rpm. Total start procedure is less than 7 seconds for sure. If it has already been running that day, I dont even wait for 2 seconds, I turn the key on, pause, crank. I am betting the click you are hearing is the relay shutting off, not turning on. In which case it will probably crank for near enough 5 seconds + then fire.

quadzilla
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Re: Massive Cloud of Exhaust

Post by quadzilla » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:41 pm

Being new to a diesel, I am not sure if I am waiting too long or not. I have read A LOT of the various threads on this site and was concerned about cranking over the starter too much. It seems to me that I am flooding the engine with too much fuel and that's why I am getting the massive cloud of exhaust.

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Sailing Deli
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Re: Massive Cloud of Exhaust

Post by Sailing Deli » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:57 pm

You should here 2 clicks. Turn the key click #1. Depending on engine temp will determine click # 2 (the warmer it is the faster it clicks). Crank as soon as you hear click #2.If your in realy cold weather you may have to go thru a few click sequences from what Ive read.
Kerry

quadzilla
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Re: Massive Cloud of Exhaust

Post by quadzilla » Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:23 pm

Thanks for the info. I do hear two clicks - I tried starting right after the second click and with a bit of cranking (3 cranks at 3-4 seconds each) my van started, but still a huge cloud of exhaust. After the van is running, I continue to hear clicks (from behind me, over my right shoulder) for around 10 seconds, then the clicking stops. So - is the exhaust cloud 'normal' on first start in the morning, or is this something I should investigate further?

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Re: Massive Cloud of Exhaust

Post by MardyDelica » Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:20 pm

Hi, dont full your throttle, just do normal starting press the pedal a little bit, then when its start try to level the rpm between 800-100 rpm by using your throttle knob, probably you pull the throttle too much & you got lots of fuel in the system that why you got lots of smoke coming out. too much fuel. try to do it slow & hope your deli will be fine, have a nice holiday.
Cheers: :-D
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quadzilla
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Re: Massive Cloud of Exhaust

Post by quadzilla » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:56 am

Thanks for the tips!

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PolyTek
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Re: Massive Cloud of Exhaust

Post by PolyTek » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:08 am

Lots of threads are suggesting that cleaning the EGR valve will reduce the smoke. I haven't done this yet, but my new Delica (picked it up Dec. 12) does the same thing. EGR cleaining is the first thing I plan to do when I get it back from the shop that's doing compliance.

D
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Schwa
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Re: Massive Cloud of Exhaust

Post by Schwa » Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:05 pm

PolyTek wrote:Lots of threads are suggesting that cleaning the EGR valve will reduce the smoke. I haven't done this yet, but my new Delica (picked it up Dec. 12) does the same thing. EGR cleaining is the first thing I plan to do when I get it back from the shop that's doing compliance.
EGR smoke doesn't really have anything to do with the smoke on startup, I think it's more likely to be starting technique and possibly injection timing contributing to the problem...

At those temperatures you shouldn't need to floor it to get it started, pull the throttle a little bit if needed, but if the timing and glow plugs are good you don't need that much fuel to get it going, that's the main source of the black cloud of death.

Starting sequence should be like this: key to 'run', hear click wait for second click, immediately after second click turn the key to crank and keep cranking until it starts, if you stop cranking, the combustion chambers have a chance to cool down, and you want them as hot as possible. Some vans have weak batteries as well, that'll affect starting ease because the speed of engine cranking also affects the heat built up in the combustion chambers.

Have your injection timing checked and set. When the timing belt is replaced the injection timing needs to be re-set as well, but often it is not. This can cause hard starting and violent engine shaking and smoking once it does start.

quadzilla
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Re: Massive Cloud of Exhaust

Post by quadzilla » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:09 pm

Thanks Erick - with some tweaking, and tips from others, I have been able to 'refine' my starting technique, and although I still have some gray smoke, I am not emitting the fog of death anymore!

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CVI
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Re: Massive Cloud of Exhaust

Post by CVI » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:06 pm

Engine type for the delica is a 4D56 using a VE rotary injection pump. These pumps were designed with a cold start system where it delivers a lot more fuel at starting rpm like 150rpm. It is normal for you to see some black smoke everytime you start your engine either when it's cold or hot. Once the engine fires, the "fog of death" should be clear.
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quadzilla
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Re: Massive Cloud of Exhaust

Post by quadzilla » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:58 pm

That is an accurate description of what happens - fog o'death at start up, then clear - and only first start of the day. Thanks!

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Artacoma
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Re: Massive Cloud of Exhaust

Post by Artacoma » Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:02 am

I just put in new glow plugs and my startups are massively improved. $230 for 4 at Lordco
When I switched em one was discolored so I'm keepin the old ones for spares and will get a multitester in the future.
Rik
97 Series 2 V6 LWB

quadzilla
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Re: Massive Cloud of Exhaust

Post by quadzilla » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:23 pm

I will be testing and changing my glow plugs (if necessary) in the next few days. Not flooding the engine at startup has helped a lot! :-D

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Re: Massive Cloud of Exhaust

Post by docsavage » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:53 am

Wow, are prices for glow plugs all over the board. I bought 4 NKG plugs at NAPA for $42 each (in Houston BC, where things aren't usually cheaper). Best to shop around a bit.

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