Starter problem, please help

[dpd]

Thanks, this is very helpful. With any luck the solenoid is weak or blown, I can verify with a jumper cable from the battery to the starter, or just jump across the solenoid right? Should get an instant start if the starter is OK but the solenoid is gone. (I'll be careful!)

Thanks for the tip about the solenoid's location, I'll look under the driver's seat for it.

[loki]

Thanks, this is very helpful. With any luck the solenoid is weak or blown, I can verify with a jumper cable from the battery to the starter, or just jump across the solenoid right? Should get an instant start if the starter is OK but the solenoid is gone. (I'll be careful!)

Thanks for the tip about the solenoid's location, I'll look under the driver's seat for it.

I suppose I could be mixing terminology, the thing under the seat could be the starter relay, not sure if i makes much difference.

here is a good diagram of the relays under the seat.

http://www.delica.ca/forum/is-pajero-gl ... tml#p54055

[Erebus]

I'm pretty sure the solenoid is mounted on the starter. The starter is a big fat slug slightly smaller than a 2L soft drink bottle, the solenoid is about the size of a 355mL can mounted on it.

And yes, there should be two wires, a thin one from the ignition/starter relay (the relay is probably what is under the driver's seat) and a fat one from the battery to the starter.

Here is a small part of the schematic of the electrical system. No fusible link shown.

Delica starter electrical schematic.jpg (75.65 KiB) Viewed 9093 times

[dpd]

Thanks Erebus.

From what you tell me and from Loki's help I will test the starter. I'll jump across the solenoid if that's possible from the outside while it's still attached. I have seen people do it in cars with a screwdriver across the solenoid terminals :)

If that turns the motor, it must be a bad solenoid. If it doesn't, but the solenoid clicks and my multimeter shows 12V on the motor side of the solenoid, the motor must be broken. Either way, I'll pull the starter since it doesn't sound like too hard of a thing, by doing searches on the site. Mardy has offered to send a new one or rebuild if I can get the bad one to him.

Many thanks for the help.

[twisted]

Hey. I had to replace my starter when I got my van, and later changed out the solanoid both can be gotten at Canadian tire. I had posted both part numbers on the site. Try a seach for them. I am in Edmonton and can give you a hand if you need it!

[loki]

If that turns the motor, it must be a bad solenoid. If it doesn't, but the solenoid clicks and my multimeter shows 12V on the motor side of the solenoid, the motor must be broken.

not to beat a dead horse but you may get 12v reading and not turn the motor and the starter is fine, is the connection is poor tha AMPs that are needed to turn the starter might not get through

[dpd]

Very helpful Twisted!

However I could not find the starter part number that you posted? I did find your old post for the solenoid part number, but of course calling Canadian Tire they have nothing for that number.

Do you remember how you narrowed it down to that starter? I asked them for a starter for a diesel Dodge Ram 50 and they came up with a Champion brand starter that is around $180. If I need to replace the entire starter then that is a decent price.

Any suggestions of how to narrow down which canadian tire part to buy? How did you do it? I guess I could take the starter down there and physically compare?
Thanks!

[dpd]

Point taken Loki.

I think I'll know much more when I get the starter out and can inspect it physically, and prod and poke it with jumper cables and a battery away from the vehicle. It's all academic until then :)

[loki]

Point taken Loki.

I think I'll know much more when I get the starter out and can inspect it physically, and prod and poke it with jumper cables and a battery away from the vehicle. It's all academic until then :)

indeed, and good luck

[Green1]

I think I'll know much more when I get the starter out and can inspect it physically, and prod and poke it with jumper cables and a battery away from the vehicle. It's all academic until then :)

one quick warning when "poking it" with jumper cables and a battery... there is a LOT of torque in that motor, giving it power without it being firmly attached to something can be rather dangerous.
(for the record, I'm not saying not to do it, I'm saying to do it carefully and with appropriate precautions in place)

Of course the other question is, why remove it from the engine to try jumping it? wouldn't it be more useful to apply power to it while it is still attached to the engine? this will quickly identify if the starter motor, or another component is the problem, even before removing it.

[dpd]

True! I just haven't actually poked my head under in the last few days as I'm away from home. So I don't know how accessible the wires and solenoid contacts are from below. If I can figure out where to jump it without removing it, I will surely do that!

This stuff is all good in theory to me as I have some experience with electrical stuff, but I am not supremely confident when it comes to real life :) The extent of my auto mechanics experience is about what I've read on the board, and fixed on my delica, so everything is new to me!

[Green1]

True! I just haven't actually poked my head under in the last few days as I'm away from home. So I don't know how accessible the wires and solenoid contacts are from below. If I can figure out where to jump it without removing it, I will surely do that!

I had to tighten my starter contacts, they were accessible (though a little awkward) from above without removing anything. with some care not to short or ground anything, they should be "jumperable" from the same location

[twisted]

As far as a starter part number, just get the Mitsi # and call around and cross part numbers. As for finding out whats blown, 1. check conections, are they clean and tight. 2. check voltage both at hot on the starter and the pull in wire ( small white wire ). 3. jump solonoid. If jumpping turns the starter the solonoid is done, if not starter is fried.

[dpd]

Finally, it looks like my starter issues are all resolved. I'm posting the story here to help anyone who comes across similar symptoms.

At first, the battery terminal connections were bad. Cleaned them, and the solenoid started going again, the problem seemed to go away, no more clatter/stutter.

Later in the spring, a problem emerged again. More often when the van was warm. This time, I could hear the starter relay click, AND the starter solenoid clunk, but no starter motor at all. Hitting ignition over and over would eventually get it to move. Waiting for a few minutes, or starting from cold, helped too.

Finally, in the process of installing WVO parts in my battery compartment, I unbolted the starter's main cable and pulled it out. I used my dremel with grinding stone to fully grind off a layer of carbon and corrosion on the copper spade. I did the same to the battery terminal end. I cleaned the bolt that holds the cable to the starter as well.

No more issues, not even once. So, as I was advised by multiple people, checking and cleaning up every electrical connection was the answer; neither starter motor nor solenoid needed to be removed or replaced.