Climategate

[loki]

Yes, I realize that in the last few years (since reality didn't support their claims and computer models)... that they changed the name from Global Warming to Climate Change. It seemed like the terminology changed around 2 years ago, when it was shown that al gore flipped the chart.

Don't get me wrong... I believe in peak oil theory, reducing our oil dependance, reducing polution, recyling/reducing/reusing, mass transit etc etc.... basically doing our part of the enviroment.

I just don't believe in man-made global warming (and only 35% of people polled do). These emails (if nothing else) seriously damage science and the scientific process in general. When you have the worlds top scientists talking about changing numbers, flipping charts, silencing critics, deleting emails.... it raises big alarm bells.

The "they" that coined the global warming term was the media, not the scientific community. as for they changing things, like terms, that's science, they learn new things and change with it, unlike religions that fight against learning new things that may change what people believe. What, exactly, would the scientific community have to gain from such a conspiracy? If you think it's big business that is behind it I find that quite funny.

[wetcoast]

Yes, I realize that in the last few years (since reality didn't support their claims and computer models)... that they changed the name from Global Warming to Climate Change. It seemed like the terminology changed around 2 years ago, when it was shown that al gore flipped the chart.

Don't get me wrong... I believe in peak oil theory, reducing our oil dependance, reducing polution, recyling/reducing/reusing, mass transit etc etc.... basically doing our part of the enviroment.

I just don't believe in man-made global warming (and only 35% of people polled do). These emails (if nothing else) seriously damage science and the scientific process in general. When you have the worlds top scientists talking about changing numbers, flipping charts, silencing critics, deleting emails.... it raises big alarm bells.

The "they" that coined the global warming term was the media, not the scientific community. as for they changing things, like terms, that's science, they learn new things and change with it, unlike religions that fight against learning new things that may change what people believe. What, exactly, would the scientific community have to gain from such a conspiracy? If you think it's big business that is behind it I find that quite funny.

What do they have to gain/loose? Government funding. Who do you think funds scientists (via universities)? The more panic... the more money gets poured into climate research.

Big business will gain by manipulating the upcoming climate credit trading scheme.... just like they have destroyed all other parts of the economy.... there is some that stand to gain big from this.

Please read the emails. Very alarming. For example there is talk about one descenting scientists posting an opposing article in a journal. They talk about how they can silence and discredit him. Sorry but that's not good science.

[loki]

Please read the emails. Very alarming. For example there is talk about one descenting scientists posting an opposing article in a journal. They talk about how they can silence and discredit him. Sorry but that's not good science.

What "emails" are you talking about? and how have they been verified as genuine and not cooked up by Glenn beck or some other Fox news idiot?

[wetcoast]

Please read the emails. Very alarming. For example there is talk about one descenting scientists posting an opposing article in a journal. They talk about how they can silence and discredit him. Sorry but that's not good science.

What "emails" are you talking about? and how have they been verified as genuine and not cooked up by Glenn beck or some other Fox news idiot?

The universities have verified the emails were stolen. Also the scientists were quoted in reuters/ AP saying they wrote them. Now they are saying yes we wrote them but they were "taken out of context". This only happened a few days ago. Along with 1000s of emails, there was 1000s of documents stolen. The documents will take some time to sift through. I don't think we've heard the end of this. At the very least, most can agree the emails have damaged science and the publics trust.

[Artacoma]

Hey carefull with the mud slinging ya might hurt somebody

[wetcoast]

Hey carefull with the mud slinging ya might hurt somebody

There is a reason he is know as the Hemorrhoid with Ears in the independant movement.

[glenn]

From wikipedia:

Alex Jones (born Alexander Emerich Jones, February 11, 1974) is an American talk radio host and filmmaker. His syndicated news/talk show The Alex Jones Show, based out of Austin, Texas, airs via the Genesis Communication Network over 60 AM, FM, and shortwave radio stations across the United States and on the Internet.[1] His websites include Infowars.com and Prison Planet.com.[2]

Mainstream news sources have referred to him as right-wing,[3][4][5] conservative,[6][7][8][9] and a conspiracy theorist.[10][11][12][13][14] Journalist Michelle Goldberg has stated in The New Republic that Jones represents "an old strain of American conservatism—isolationist, anti-Wall Street, paranoid about elite conspiracies—that last flowered during the John Birch Society’s heyday."[15]

Jones identifies as a libertarian, not a right-winger,[16] and calls himself a paleoconservative.[17] In a promotional biography he is described as an "aggressive constitutionalist".[18][19]

It's disturbing that so many people take a guy like this seriously. His brand of misinformation, and other forms of "AstroTurfing" of grass roots organizations has led people to believe that there is some sort of debate among the scientific community about global warming. It's a shame really, because the reality and consensus among scientists is that most of the effects of global warming are occurring alarmingly more rapidly than their own computer models have predicted.

I would also like to add that most of these papers you mention base there research on charts/facts/tables developed by the top scientists who had their emails hacked.

And by the way, I did not mention any papers - I'm talking about a quarter of a century of rigorous observation and research by thousands of scientists and virtually every academic and scientific institution in the world. Of course there has been debate, but let's get real - one high level scandal, or doctoring of facts doesn't dismiss the entire body of research in this area. Please direct me to even ONE peer reviewed scientific paper that supports this hoax BS.

I know everyone loves a good conspiracy theory - but have you stopped to consider, what if the scientists are right?

[loki]

I will look deeper into this, not saying it's true or false but clearly some academics have made mistakes.

BTW it would have been helpful to be more clear what you where posting about in the first place, I had no idea that "Climategate" was a term being used on this story or that it even was a story, remember when posting on the internet the people reading it don't know what your thinking and probably don't surf all the same pages on the net as you :)

here is a good article to help some get a little background

[wetcoast]

From wikipedia:

Alex Jones (born Alexander Emerich Jones, February 11, 1974) is an American talk radio host and filmmaker. His syndicated news/talk show The Alex Jones Show, based out of Austin, Texas, airs via the Genesis Communication Network over 60 AM, FM, and shortwave radio stations across the United States and on the Internet.[1] His websites include Infowars.com and Prison Planet.com.[2]

Mainstream news sources have referred to him as right-wing,[3][4][5] conservative,[6][7][8][9] and a conspiracy theorist.[10][11][12][13][14] Journalist Michelle Goldberg has stated in The New Republic that Jones represents "an old strain of American conservatism—isolationist, anti-Wall Street, paranoid about elite conspiracies—that last flowered during the John Birch Society’s heyday."[15]

Jones identifies as a libertarian, not a right-winger,[16] and calls himself a paleoconservative.[17] In a promotional biography he is described as an "aggressive constitutionalist".[18][19]

It's disturbing that so many people take a guy like this seriously. His brand of misinformation, and other forms of "AstroTurfing" of grass roots organizations has led people to believe that there is some sort of debate among the scientific community about global warming. It's a shame really, because the reality and consensus among scientists is that most of the effects of global warming are occurring alarmingly more rapidly than their own computer models have predicted.

I would also like to add that most of these papers you mention base there research on charts/facts/tables developed by the top scientists who had their emails hacked.

And by the way, I did not mention any papers - I'm talking about a quarter of a century of rigorous observation and research by thousands of scientists and virtually every academic and scientific institution in the world. Of course there has been debate, but let's get real - one high level scandal, or doctoring of facts doesn't dismiss the entire body of research in this area. Please direct me to even ONE peer reviewed scientific paper that supports this hoax BS.

I know everyone loves a good conspiracy theory - but have you stopped to consider, what if the scientists are right?

I don't follow alex jones, never heard his radio show or even suggest going to his website ( some crazy stuff on there ). The only reason I posted his video is because his video has the the most amount of quotes with the least amount of spin. By now othes have done the same. You can read any liberal paper in the US or UK. They are all talking about this. Not just because it is damaging to climate change theories but because it is bad for science in general. This is not a left or right issue. It is an issue of top scientists trying to mislead their peers and the public. Please don't take his word for it. I urge you to please read the emails yourself. "Hide the decline" "redefine peer group journals" "mass deleting of emails" "refusing access to information requests" "using mathamatical 'tricks' to prove their ideas" "trying to discredit descenting views" "trying to shut down scientific journals that dare post opposing views" etc etc etc These scientists speak for themselves.

I agree with you that one scandal isn't the end... but its scarey when those at the very very top are trying to stifle debate and misrepresent the facts.

[psilosin]

I think this proves that we need 100% separation of science and state.

+1

Go Church + State Go! Thats how good descisions get made! Taliban 2012!!! Peter Popoff will save us!!!

[glenn]

but its scarey when those at the very very top are trying to stifle debate and misrepresent the facts

The top of what? This is a political and not a scientific quagmire. Why jump on the entire scientific community. On the face of it is a black eye for the environmental movement, and is indeed scandalous and unjustifiable - but I fail to see the connection to all the good research that is done at the ground level.

And I agree with Loki, it's not really clear what you are posting about in the first place (and how does this relate to delica.ca)?

[Artacoma]

I think this can help clear up any confusion for anyone who has any questions about climate change:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBQEcsc8 ... PL&index=4

[Artacoma]

Somebody shoot me now!

[psilosin]

^^ nice

[bikepoor]

So what yer sayin is my Bus in Calgary, now in the middle of this complete white out blizzard covered in ice, that I had to shovel through a foot of snow to get to, wouldn't start because it was too cold, because of global warming?!?

This is a forum for Delica people to talk about things related to Delica's. We all like nature, that's why we talk about going camping, fishing, biking, boating, in our Delica's!

Me thinks you typed in the wrong address, you were looking for "NOLIFEOVERTHETOPTREEHUGGERS.COM"

What the hell does this have to do with anything related to Delica? Oh yeah, I still run on dino fuel, and I blow black smoke, and i'm killing tree snails in the rain forests of somewhere warmer than here!

I'd change that if you weren't taking up space on this site with crap that doesn't relate, so I could get the info I need!!!