Springs re-arch?

[Leafster]

Hi all, I took the Deli to the local suspension shop today to see about getting some custom long shackles made to lift the rear a little and they took one look at the leaf springs and said RE-ARCH! So, it's there right now getting the leafs brought back to life. Here's hoping we get the extra inch or so and better stability as well. I'll report back when she's done.

[thelazybrownfox]

There's a bunch of problems that come with rearching rear springs that need be looked at. Changing vehicle height and angles affect your front springs/coils, CV joints, brakes, motor mounts and transmission.

Check them all when you releaf or rearch. Sagging springs/coils are a common problem with all vehicles of that age and especially with the abuse of heavy loads or lots of off road use.

Do you have a stock height for your delica? if its different on either corner look for wear on that same corner with the associated parts of the suspension or the drive train. Its too easy just to jack up that side or corner.

i know this from various older vehicles I have owned for long times. Just a FYI. I'm still trying to get a delica from Japan. Hopefully soon.

[crushers]

There's a bunch of problems that come with rearching rear springs that need be looked at. Changing vehicle height and angles affect your front springs/coils, CV joints, brakes, motor mounts and transmission.

please explain in greater detail?

[BCDelica]

I have a quick question Wayne, given that Bruce left quickly sunday morning - (bye buddy, very nice to get to know you Bruce, will see Amanda and you when you move here!) and I was hoping to buy his last set of shackles.

But, given that the common ways of lift a Deli' are longer rear shackles, or axle blocks, what difference would there be to doing a leaf spring re-arching? I understand the changes to; CV joints, brakes (and lines), motor mounts and transmission, with a mild lift (say 1 1/2 inch). But wouldn't a re-arching, with maybe that cool thin UHMW plastic placed between the leafs, give good ride and leaf spring travel without say changing drive shaft spline length/position? Of course after lifting the back springs; I would wind up the torsion bars to match, new shocks (well on my wife's - the back end was waaaaay bouncier on the last stretch from the meet this weekend), arch mods, then I would take the van in for a full alignment and have the pros check everything.

Cheers,
Kev

[josh]

Kevin,

First of all, I snaked the last pair of shackles off of Bruce. Secondly, from what I understand respringing the springs (or adding another leaf) would acomplish more or less the same thing (another leaf would give you the same height as the shackles I think) but at the same time it would stiffen up the rear end a bit. Better if you plan on carrying a lot of stuff (i.e. veggie oil to start campfires with...) but if you are riding it empty it just might bounce around a bit more.

Josh

[crushers]

kev,
after workingon Cruisers for so many years when i read something like the post by thelazybrownfox i need to ask where this information is coming from...

reaching will lead to sag in very short time, most that reach complain about the de-arch. longer shackles will give more travel, better ride and of course longer shocks "should" be installed at the same time to utulize the extra travel...longer brake lines "might" be needed.

i have made and ran custom shackles for decades...

the nice thing about longer shackles is the pinion angle stays true to the driveshaft where as add-a-leaf or reaching tilts the pinion angle contrary to the driveshaft angle which "can" lead to premature U/joint wear...

cheers

[BCDelica]

Thanks Wayne,

I think shackles are they way to go then; I'm flip flopping all over the place here... :lol:

I have two good friends that are welders/fabricators that can make me up a set using the originals, they just won't be as nice as the Mystery Machines shackles. I guess a good thing about going with shackles is that it is easy to get the right amount of lift. I think I'll lift the front first and see how much I need to gain on the shackles. Didn't know that rearched's will sag.

New shocks seem like a good idea, my rear is bouncier after the Delica meet. Not too surprising, that was a lota clicks of ruff road.

Kev

[Leafster]

Just to give you guys an update. Since we had the springs re-arched the van is much more stable and the ride is good and solid. If you're thinking of blocks or shackles (both of which are good easy ways of lifting without affecting ride quality) you should still have your leaf springs examined. If there is obvious spring sag which you can see by irregular spacing among the leafs, such as the top one being sort of flat and the bottom ones arching away from it, then installing blocks or extended shackles is kind of a band-aid approach.

Regarding add-a-leafs, I have had mixed experiences with them. On my Tacoma I hated them and removed them because they made the rear super stiff and caused the shocks to top out over speed bumps (stock shocks, I know I needed longer ones). On a Delica it may work better as there is significantly more weight on the rear end.

In our case, the leafs had obviously sagged over time and the wear in the back seats points to our van being used regularly to haul people. By re-arching we are bringing the rear suspension closer to original. Some vans may have good rear springs, some may have sagged.

All I can say is start with a strong suspension before bolting things to it to make the vehicle sit higher. Squishy springs and a higher centre of gravity are not a good combination.

By the way, Wayne is right about pinion angles, use shackles over blocks, especially with our short wheelbase.

We had the front cranked pretty high, it has now been levelled and then final adjustments were made during the alignment.

[crushers]

good looking van, congrates..
one thing many people do nto do is research the add-a-leaf (AAL) before installing...they walk into the shop and go "i need a AAL" the parts drone behind the desk whips open his catalogue and goes "ah, this is the one you need" and off you go...trusting the kid that has never installed an AAL in his life...
another problem i have seen is people stick the AAL on without removing any of the stock leafs...wrong. you remove all leafs that are the same length or shorter than the AAL.
i have found an AAL for the Cruisers that were made for the Jeep crowd. it gives good lift (about 2-3") and a very nice ride. it felxes extremely well and costs about $90 a pair. (of course i had to test run a few different sets to find the right ones)
Rancho makes a good set but there are 2 different part numbers, the one is a VERY harsh ride, the other is perfect...

cheers

[Leafster]

Good point. You will also find that shorter add-a-leafs with steeper arch will rider harsher than longer, more progressive ones.

It's also a good idea to find a good suspension shop who really understands leaf spring suspension. Someone like that can be a great resource when building up any vehicle that you can't just order a box of bolt-on parts for. They will be able to do custom leafs, re-arching, custom shackles, blocks or whatever you decide is what you want for your needs.

In Kelowna it's Alsek Industries, they really know their stuff and can give the right advice for your application.

[thelazybrownfox]

You guys that replied are just too full of good info. I had some computer down time but am back ( I hope) with a good computer now. I think any questions I created are answered now.
thanks
Wayne
thelazybrownfox

[Green1]

You guys that replied are just too full of good info

dontcha just hate that about this place? too much good info, and all in one place! ;)

[terrain]

I'm just starting to look at suspension, so this is all good advice.

I've had my experiences in rearching two landcruiser trucks and just like wayne said - they sagged fast. I added springs without good results as well.

My rear end looks and feels good. Generally I've been really impressed at how stable a ride this is (compared to a westy) my fronts sagged and you can really feel it in braking and cornering so will be lifting that and getting things aligned - curous what that will do for the ride.

[Nisseman]

Leafster, I was looking at your pictures and wondering about the front
bars that run forward of the front wheels. I see yours have been removed. I'm currently over-researching my Delica purchase, as I do with everything I purchase and I've noticed some lifted Deli's have these
bars removed and some don't. Is there a particular reason for this or is it purely for looks?

[Green1]

I think you're talking about the side steps, they usually get removed so as to be able to fit larger tires, though some people also remove them for looks, personally I like the look of them, so as long as I don't get tires that are big enough to force me to remove mine, they'll stay.