Price of local Biodiesel?

[Drumster]

Can anyone recommend a good place in Vancouver area, more specifically N Surrey, to buy Biodiesel? I intend to use Bio in my Deli but there only seems to be one outlet in the vicinity: Husky, near the foot of the Alex Fraser bridge is closest. Any idea what I'll have to pay and is it more than dino-diesel? If it's stupidly more expensive I might have to rethink my anti-pollution crusade.
Cheers!

[loki]

Can anyone recommend a good place in Vancouver area, more specifically N Surrey, to buy Biodiesel? I intend to use Bio in my Deli but there only seems to be one outlet in the vicinity: Husky, near the foot of the Alex Fraser bridge is closest. Any idea what I'll have to pay and is it more than dino-diesel? If it's stupidly more expensive I might have to rethink my anti-pollution crusade.
Cheers!

I've heard arguments that bio diesel, even from wvo, isn't much better than dino as you have to use methanol to make it and apparently take much more crude to make methanol than diesel so you end up using about the same amount, but that is just something I read on a forum somewhere, possibly even hear but I thin kit was infopop.

also keep in mind that there are different types of bio B5 - B100 the number stands for what percentage is bio diesel and the rest is dino from my understanding.

[TardisDeli]

Bio diesel place in Burnaby, at Marine Drive and Byrne Road. They also sell B85 etc. AutoGas place http://www.autogaspropane.com/. They have 3 sites around Vancouver area also. And one in Rutland (Where??). The location on Main Street In Vancouver (by the main train terminal) didnt have NORMAL diesel, just the bio diesel (huh). The advertised signboard is usually about 10 cents liter more $ than cheapo diesel at other places.

My marine mechanic says Alcohol is for People not for engines. "Silly boy, Alcohol is for People".

I just chuck well filtered veg oil in with my diesel, no mods needed, very perky and happy delica. But dont' do it if nightime temps will drop below 10 degrees celcius unless you have a warmer device.

Cheers, Christine.

[Adam]

A block heater makes a world of difference trying to cold start a WVO filled engine.

[Drumster]

...I just chuck well filtered veg oil in with my diesel, no mods needed, very perky and happy delica. But dont' do it if nightime temps will drop below 10 degrees celcius unless you have a warmer device.

Cheers, Christine.

Hey, that's pretty cool!
Are you saying you simply stop adding veggie as the cooler months approach in order to avoid ill effects? I mean that as opposed to having to completely purge the system somehow of any trace of veg prior to cold weather?

[PlantDrive]

Christine - you are almost certain to end up creating major problems for your engine in a relatively short period of time by doing this. It has been shown many times that the vast majority of engines, with the exception of the Mercedes IDI engines up to 1999, will not tolerate the use of vegetable oil for very long without a proper conversion. I know you have been blending for a while - are you now saying you are making things even worse by running 100% WVO with no conversion? How long? (How many months and how many km?) I strongly suggest that you have the injectors pulled and checked, at minimum, properly tested, to check for coking and spray pattern, at this point. Starting at +10C or even +30C outside temperatures is still a "cold start", as far as a combustion chamber is concerned. It'll catch up to you, I'm afraid, and can be thousands of dollars to repair the damage. My advice to you and others - if you are going to run WVO, do it right and convert it properly. There are a number of good suppliers of components and kits to do a conversion (ourselves included, yes.) Thank you.

[PlantDrive]

Christine - sorry, just re-read your post, and I see that you did not in fact say you were running WVO on its own, but rather that you "chuck it in with the diesel".
So, blending. And that's better, or can be, at least making "cold" starts possible and not too rough, smoky, etc, but still can be problematic longer term. What percentage have you been running and for how long (months and km)?

Thanks.

[mararmeisto]

Hijack

PlantDrive: I understood most of those 'concerns' raised by the VWs and the BMWs and the Mercedes (especially the newer ones) running biodiesel or WVO had more to do with the electronically-controlled injection pumps than the mechanically adjusted ones like our vans. Something to do with the "variable viscosity of the disparate liquids and the incompatibilty of dissimilar fuels" and a bunch of other scientific mumbly-jumbly which basically distilled down to those companies not wanting to warranty their engines because the purchaser filled it with a fuel different from what the company designed the engine to use.

Am I too far off on that supposition, or does it have more to do with not properly getting all the water out of WVO and having that lead to the usual problems?

[TardisDeli]

Hi Ed of Plant Drive, Sorry I didnt explain it too clearly in this posting, I have explained better on other posts, this post was a reply to an existing bio user since he was asking local prices. I only add wvo in warmer months, and none once temps go down below 10degrees. Get my wvo from a very trusted source (who did full Plantdrive conversion). For my mixing I just add it in about a 1/4 tank wvo ration in spring fall, up more in summer to 1/3 tank, which I heard is the recommended maximum ratio. I do push the outer limits in very very hot weather, up to half tank if I know I am doing a long highway drive with no risk of cool altitude or cool overnight temps (add it after I have started my engine for the trip while idling and last minute packing). Every few tanks gets a full diesel, sometimes with added proper diesel lube. Winter gets good diesel and added lube. Been doing for year and half, had deli for 2 years, done about 30,OOO km since starting to mix, done about 40,000 km since got my deli. Is a 1991 exceed, auto, arrived in Canada with 166,000 km, with engine in very good condition. I drive thoughtfully, let engine warm up with gentle driving, go up hills in slow lane keeping revs to 2500 rpm (not whining us to 3500 rpm as some do), and not lugging. Buy my diesel from high turnover places, keep an eye on my water separator (never had problem). I have looked into wvo conversion, just can't justify it for my low mileage. Has rubber fuel lines so will not use bio, bad alcohol factor. Was curious if a heated racor filter might extend my season's of use, but decided not to risk the wvo congealing in tank lines etc which are not heated. So far havent had problems. Delica runs perky-er with wvo mixed in, a good thing. But I am always willing to alter my usage if you have concerns, as I recognize you as an expert. Regards, Christine.

[loki]

Hi Ed of Plant Drive, Sorry I didnt explain it too clearly in this posting, I have explained better on other posts, this post was a reply to an existing bio user since he was asking local prices. I only add wvo in warmer months, and none once temps go down below 10degrees. Get my wvo from a very trusted source (who did full Plantdrive conversion). For my mixing I just add it in about a 1/4 tank wvo ration in spring fall, up more in summer to 1/3 tank, which I heard is the recommended maximum ratio. I do push the outer limits in very very hot weather, up to half tank if I know I am doing a long highway drive with no risk of cool altitude or cool overnight temps (add it after I have started my engine for the trip while idling and last minute packing). Every few tanks gets a full diesel, sometimes with added proper diesel lube. Winter gets good diesel and added lube. Been doing for year and half, had deli for 2 years, done about 30,OOO km since starting to mix, done about 40,000 km since got my deli. Is a 1991 exceed, auto, arrived in Canada with 166,000 km, with engine in very good condition. I drive thoughtfully, let engine warm up with gentle driving, go up hills in slow lane keeping revs to 2500 rpm (not whining us to 3500 rpm as some do), and not lugging. Buy my diesel from high turnover places, keep an eye on my water separator (never had problem). I have looked into wvo conversion, just can't justify it for my low mileage. Has rubber fuel lines so will not use bio, bad alcohol factor. Was curious if a heated racor filter might extend my season's of use, but decided not to risk the wvo congealing in tank lines etc which are not heated. So far havent had problems. Delica runs perky-er with wvo mixed in, a good thing. But I am always willing to alter my usage if you have concerns, as I recognize you as an expert. Regards, Christine.

you can't justify a full conversion due to low mileage? is that because you generally have shorter trips so by the time you can switch over it's about time to switch back? if so you should consider a 1 tank conversion, I think Ed mantioned that he was working on designing one? There is also the Elsbett kit that I'm using, this would allow you to run WVO from start to finish except when it gets too cold then you can go back to dino for winter.

[jessef]

The L400's for some reason don't like WVO blends (80/20 - 50/50 - etc..) as much as the L300's.

If you want to run WVO in your L400, I suggest installing a WVO conversion (start on diesel - veg - purge diesel before you shut off engine).

I have been running 80 diesel/20 veg in my L400 this summer and it's 'okay'. I ran 50/50 on one long trip and by the time I got through the tank, it was chuging and I had to replace the fuel filter.

I've got a conversion kit I'm putting in very soon. It's getting too cold already overnight for a 50/50 mix.

[Drumster]

Interesting how topics can shift around & jump tracks etc.
So I was simply asking about the cost of commercially available Biodiesel, as compared to regular dino-diesel.
But now that we're talking about it I have a question: while I understand there are some precautions if one is considering burning WVO, do those same precautions apply when considering commercially sold Biodiesel or can one just fill up as with regular diesel with no worries?
Cheers!

[Mr. Flibble]

I believe that commercial biodiesel is equivalent to regular diesel - as in it has been processed to make it more "diesel" like. WVO is considerably different however.

[loki]

I believe that commercial biodiesel is equivalent to regular diesel - as in it has been processed to make it more "diesel" like. WVO is considerably different however.

Bio will eat your fuel lines and seals in your IP if they are rubber and not the more modern stuff, I know the L300s where the older stuff. of coarse it's not right away it will take time, and some say that is doesn't happen but I think that is wishful thinking, just my opinion though

[DelicaFreaka]

[quote And one in Rutland (Where??).[/quote]

That would be in Kelowna...................................Kirk out.