Filter Change

[sean]

Question? How often is everyone changing their onboard filters? I am having some stalling issues whilst running and thinking it may be a blockage some where like the filter. It seems a very early as I have only run for 500 km on veg so far.
Any thoughts?
Sean

[Adam]

I'm having the same problem. I probably got 1000km on 10 micron WVO before I started losing power, to the point where I couldn't go over 40km/h on WVO. I changed out the filter and had a few hundred km trouble free before I started to lose power again. This time it's stalling as well, so I've got a flow restriction somewhere as well an air leak in the WVO system. The diesel system still runs without an issue so I've been running on WVO until I lose power, then switching over to diesel for a bit until the power is back to normal. That has worked OK, for the last few weeks, but in the last week the stalling has gotten so bad it's not even worth switching over to WVO anymore.

I think what I have to do is take apart the VegMax filter again, reseal the hose connection with teflon paste and make sure there are now kinks in the lines. I left a bit of slack coiled up in the VegMax space so the I could pull the filter down to change the element. It looks like I wasn't careful enough with sticking the hose back in. I've got a pair of Eric's VegMax brackets that I'm going to mount the filter on and trim up the slack in the fuel lines. Unfortunately the weather hasn't been cooperating in the last few months.

I'm also going to start filter the oil down to 5 microns, seeing as the VegMax elements are 5 micron filters. The WVO group only filters down to 10 microns and they haven't had any problems over the last few years, but their on board oil filters are also 10 microns. I still thought the VegMax filters would last longer than 1000km with 10 micron oil. Maybe there's another issue.

Hopefully Santa will bring me some warmer weather in the next few days and I can get under the Delica to track down the problem.

[EricN]

Any chance you guys aren't de-watering enough? I know the vegmax filters are designed to impede flow when they absorb their capacity of water. Try filtering with a water trap filter element as you fill the truck and see how long it lasts in relation to the kms on the truck. I know princess auto had a cheap setup for about $32 that filtered to 15 microns. I dont think it will last forever in veggie as it doesnt mention compatibility with bio fuel but it might help diagnose the cause of your clogging.

[sean]

Adam, interesting to hear your issue right now. Seems similar to mine except I realized yesterday that it also stalled on diesel so I have tightened up the injectors and rechecked the connections going to the injection pump.My wife forgot to purge the other night and the system stayed on for almost 24 hours. The veg therm was running constantly and drained the batteries. SO my problem was getting the system to switch back to veg. I have the thermo switch hooked up so I need running temp to switch over. I bypassed that by taking a piece of wire and attaching it to the battery and then into the wire for the valve to open. That worked. Now I was back to diesel. Then I had to get the vehicle boosted but I had no fuel to get it running while being boosted. I then thought that I might need to crack my injectors to get the vacumn started. That got it all running but I think one of the injectors was not quite on all the way or loosened. This morning I found a pool of veg in the injector's well that might have been loose.

So I might have solved my problem BUT with your issue Adam it makes me think I haven't seen the last of it.
I like your idea Eric. I do believe though that the oil I use is very well dewatered as I share with a guy that runs his town ace on the same veg and he has gone 1 1/2 years with no problems when it comes to oil. But any moisture, especially in the early stages of this is something I want to watch for. Even if I filtered it as I was pouring into my Jerry cans that might help.
I am going to order some replacement filters for the vegmax. Hopefully we don't go through to many. It could get pricey.

As for the veg therm staying on if we forget to purge was an eye opener. I realize that even on warm days when the veg will be fine to leave in the line I should still switch just before shutting down so that it turns off. Or I need to hook it up electrically so that only when the key is in the ignition does the veg therm turn on.

Sean

[Adam]

Any chance you guys aren't de-watering enough? I know the vegmax filters are designed to impede flow when they absorb their capacity of water.

Good point. I wasn't checking the water content of the oil because of the success the other user has had for the past few years running on it. I'll test some of the WVO in my tank for water using a hot pan to see what sizzles. We've been using Baldwin PF10 filters (10 micron) as the final filter in a 70 micron, 30, micron, 10 micron series. The PF10s are not water absorbing so I think I'll switch to the PF10-CS filters which are twice the price, but the have the water absorbing ability.

Barring water issues, how long should I expect a 5 micron on board filter to last if I'm only filter down to 10 micron when I fill the tank? I plan on searching for a 5 micron or better version of the Baldwin filters I'm using right now, but so far I haven't had the time.

[EricN]

Your guess is as good as mine. I would hope at least 5-10k.

[BCDelica]

My wife forgot to purge the other night and the system stayed on for almost 24 hours. The veg therm was running constantly and drained the batteries. SO my problem was getting the system to switch back to veg.

Does that mean you get a good Christmas present from her? Same thing happen here yesterday too, along with a dead battery from the overhead 'moon' light left on. Do you have a buzzer wired in to warn when the keys removed when left on WVO? Like a http://www.greasecar.com/product_detail.cfm?prodID=21. Any 12v buzzer can be used and you just switch to diesel when your parking for a short stop not requiring a purge. Took ours out quite awhile ago cause we always remember to purge - usually.

Do any of you heat your WVO to dewater?

[Adam]

Do any of you heat your WVO to dewater?

No, I have not been dewatering. I was hoping that the months of settling would get the water to settle out, but I'm now thinking that is not the case. The other guy in the group that has been running on this oil for the past few years has not had a problem with it, but he is only got a 10 micron on board WVO filter and I'm not sure if it is water blocking or not. I was trying to keep the filtering process as simple as possible.

EDIT: I just pulled some WVO out of my tank and gave it the hot pan test. Lots of cracking and bubble so it looks like I'm going to have to start de-watering my oil. Yet another project

EDIT2: I just reread processing tips in Kevin's WVO post:

I pour my waste oil through 2 layers of cheese cloth (the good stuff by the bolt, strapped over the largest funnel I could find) to fill the first storage barrel(s) (taking out the chewy bits and leaving grease), using a 120v water heater element to heat to 90c plus (de-watering and faster filtering), then I pump it with a Liberty model 331 pump; freebie! Then through to clear bowl, stainless mesh filters designed for water filtering, at 1000 and 400 mesh, they cost $75 apiece but work super. Money is very well spent on Rusco filter (a spin down sand filter – mine’s a model 2-200STSS-F with a 2B housing) with a 1000 mesh stainless screen as the first (pre) filter. It filters out all the big stuff first, and filters fast, and when the screen is grudged up - just open the ball valve on the bottom of the housing to clean the screen. The third filter is a 5 micron cellulose water filter from Wal-Mart ($24 housing and filter media).

I let it settle for a few days in my filling barrel, and using a fill rite pump, bought off 'that site', a racor fuel dispensing filter ( ¾” housing $33 - HHO7500 and filter $12- FDW3825) with 8 meters of hose attached to fill the van. I have installed a heating blanket on the racor filter. Darn oil can fill slowly in this colder weather. I do add half a liter of diesel conditioner to each processed barrel.

One of the guys in my group is has a submersible heater which I could use to heat batches of the oil, but I haven't tested it yet, not sure how hot it will get the oil, or how small the batches have to be. The other option I'm checking out is modifying an old hot water tank if I can pick one up for free/cheap to make a Frybrid still. I was told this project was over kill by the other guy in our group that has been running on the oil for a few years without issue, but seeing as I have two clogged filters in less than 2000km I guess I need to beef up our micron and dewatering standards for my ride.

[BCDelica]

The water heater idea is solid, and wouldn't hurt if you have a permanent processing area. I heated a barrel of WVO for over 2 hours last night with a 1600 w, 120 volt (highest wattage available of the shelf) water heater element before filtering. The submersible heater is handy as you can see the bubbling, at first, of the water coming off. My rule of thumb, from experience is to heat it for an hour more after the bubbles stop raising from all levels of the barrel. It not very scientific, but experience has shown me that any less and the filtered WVO will go very slow through the final water removing filter (hydraulic filters nowadays), with a way short life. I did use a wine thermometer for over a year to get the temperature over 90c and also did the frying pan test every 1-2 months.

Edit: I add of a liter of diesel conditioner and 20-30 mils of biocide to each barrel.

My submersible heater; $24 element, old heavy extension cord, and a aluminum sleeve to cover the element ($1 from the scrap yard) worked for two years till last night (aluminum sleeve caught and sunk to the bottom of the barrel, grrrrrrr).

Happy New Year!!!!!

[sean]

We heat our 45 gallon drum with a heater element, the same as Kev's, for a few hours on each batch.

My stalling issue seems to have stopped so I believe that the injector was the culprit. I also realized that the 2 feet of hose with cold veg that is after the vegtherm running to the valve and the injection pump has to push through before heated veg reaches the pump. That is when I am finding the engine struggling. Once the cold stuff is through it seems to be fine. I may hook up the vegtherm after the valve. We all talked about this before. The heating of the diesel shouldn't be a problem.

Ordered up some new filters so I am probably going to change one out a start fresh, monitoring the life span. I should also do a pan test ands see what kind of results I get.

Sean

[EricN]

Hey Sean, just an fyi. I have run 70 litres of diesel through my veggie tank all the while with vegtherm on as well as vegmax and my "hotfox" preheating. I never noticed any problems or issues of any kind and I am seeing fuel temps around 170-180 celcius.

[Adam]

We heat our 45 gallon drum with a heater element, the same as Kev's, for a few hours on each batch.

I'm going to head to Budget Steel tomorrow and see if I can pick up a 45 Gal drum with removable lid to use as a heating vessel. The drums that Eric was nice enough to give me are great for storage, but I won't be able to fit a heating element in opening.

Sean, have you welded a heating element to a 45 Gal barrel, or did you make a submersible heater that you can switch from barrel to barrel? I'm looking for a non-welding solution if possible.

[Adam]

I found a stop gap solution to dewatering my oil without having to build a still. I bought a 28 quart turkey deep fry kit from WalMart for $50, which was big enough to heat 16L batches of oil up to 300F. The oil I pumped out of my tank had a significant amount of water in it, enough so that it made a lot of crackling while heating up to temp. The good news for me is that the oil I've already filtered into 45Gal barrels doesn't crackle or bubble when heated up to 300F, so it look like the problem was with one batch of oil that I've now dried out.

[Adam]

Alright at this point it looks like I'm talking to myself, but this might be applicable to Sean, as he is also using a Plant Drive kit. The relay wiring harness for my VegTherm Mega melted a bit around wire 87 (to the vegtherm) to the point where is was not supplying voltage. Not sure why this occurred, obviously I've messed up the wiring somehow, I'm looking into it this weekend and I'll take some pics.

After changing my filter for the 2nd time, dewatering the oil in my tank and filtering down to 10 microns I was still stalling after less than 100km on WVO. I took apart the lines to look for an obstruction and I tested the Posi-Flo aux fuel pump I'm using which periodically was cutting out. Everything checked out, I figured the fuel pump was cutting out because the pressure in the line was exceeding the rated pump pressure, presumably because of a blocked filter or other flow restriction (crimped fuel line, debris in line, etc.) I finally checked the voltage being sent to the fuel pump, and it was only 0.25 volts. The fuel pump power is connected to wire 87 from the relay which also powers the VegTherm. It turns out that the VegTherm was only getting 0.25 volts as well. So not only was the WVO obstructed by the stopped fuel pump, but it was also not being heated to temp by the VegTherm, it was only getting heat from the coolant heated fuel filter.

I've now got the vegtherm/fuel pump hooked up to terminal 87A which was previously unused and it seemed to be working OK. I've only tested it a short time, but it does not seem to be heating up. I'll test it on my 250km round trip drive to Victoria tomorrow and see if I can detect any unusual heat coming from the relay which might cause it to melt.

Long story short (I know, too late). Check the voltage being supplied to your VegTherm when you flip the switch. As a precaution I've hooked up a digital oven thermometer probe to my VegTherm now to make sure it doesn't drop below 80C or so.

[EricN]

Uh, bad news man. 87a will be powered when the relay is off. Turn the relay on and it will disconnect. I would try and install a second relay for the pump, dont put both loads on the same relay since that vegtherm is supposed to draw 30amps which is about the max for those relays. You can trigger the pump relay (terminal 85 or 86 of the pump relay) off of the vegtherm relay terminal 87 as it is only about 300ma.