I think I've blown my turbo.

[str8gooods]

So tonight I was leaving the theater after watching Fast and Furious of all movies and was accelerating from a stop light and felt an instant loss of power with what sounded like a blow off, or intercooler pipe coming off. The best way I could describe the sound was like a release of pressure. Which was followed by a puff of smoke out the back. The truck didn't stall, but there is a whistle/scraping sound when I rev it. I immediately pulled over and took a look, and couldn't see anything out of place. The idle sounds normal and only makes the noise when I rev. I had it towed home just to be safe.
It sounds and feels like a blown turbo. What should I look for to help me figure it out. It's a 94 2.8L SWB
Thanks

[RickJ]

With the engine shut off......Remove the hose from the airfilter box to the turbo. Once removed you will see the compressor wheel side of the turbo. Look at the blades for signs of curling as well as scoring or drag marks if it has made contact with the volute inlet. If you reach in and grab the nut and shaft you will be able to rotate by hand without feeling any grinding or heavy resistance. Also try wiggling it up and down, side to side and fore and aft as well to look for excessive play. Excess play would indicate worn bearings. These are of the plain bearing style, (non ball bearing), so I would ensure proper oil flow if they are worn to this point. Someone (do a search) on here posted a how too on overhauling their turbocharger. Great write up and pics. Overhaul kits include all bearings and seals are avail on ebay for very cheap. If everything looks normal, start it up and increase the engine speed by controlling the lever on the fuel pump until it starts to spin. Try to get a good listen. You may find its something else altogether. Dont put you fingers or any other objects near it, especially if it looks like it was turning but now its standing still....Hope this helps,

Rick

[jrrodger]

Hi V

I have had a blown turbo I know the sound very well (kind of shrill scraping sound when the turbo winds-up).. You may have had some of the air/oil/coolant plumbing come a little loose which is much cheaper and easier to fix. But I am assuming that you do not have coolant or oil leaks happening.

If it is the turbo, this may mean your bearings have gone, or the higher pressure self-destructed turbine "fins" on the exhaust side (not the intake as below) or you bent the turbo propshaft and it is scraping. If the turbo is "done" you will hear the scraping sounds while you rev the engine putting your ear on a screwdriver or stethiscope. (hope for your sake that the scraping is coming from somewhere else). My only advice is NOT to get a local Toronto mechanic to do the work of repairing the turbo, I would buy and install a used one instead (nobody in Toronto appears to be able to do the work very well but you will spend a fortune). I have seen an example of someone who did a turbocharger refurb in pictures on this forum to a Delica, and it CAN be done but a turbo propshaft has to be balanced very carefully....

Some of the other (cheaper and easier to fix) possibilities would be:
1) Blown gaskets on Manifolds, or Cylinder Heads or turbo charger to exhaust
2) Blow-off valve on your cylinder head has come free due to very high pressure

I posted my experience on the PCOUK forum under the same userid as this forum. PM me what days you are around at your work this weekend and I will try to help you diagnose if you are still driving your rig to work.

James R Rodger

[str8gooods]

So I did as you recommended and took a look at the compressor side. As you can see in the pictures some of the blades have curl tips. And I don't know what is considered excessive play but I am able to wiggle the compressor wheel in all directions but forward and back.
As well there seems to be quite a lot of oil in the intercooler piping. And my recently changed air filter has collected what looks like very oily residue. The sound is similar to a high pitch kazoo. But is difficult to pinpoint on my own, but it does seem to be coming from the turbo. Should I just remove the turbo to get a better look? Are they just water cooled or oil or both?

[RickJ]

So you say it feels okay to rotate? By lifting slightly on the shaft while rotating doesnt cause any significant dragging? From the looks of the pics it does show quite a bit of contaminants on the entry into the wheel. Most of this is likely just the buildup of oil mist venting from the crankcase pressure vent feeding back to the air filter housing. The air filter shows a buildup as well. Just out of curiousity, is that the sealing face on the ground for your airfilter in the pic? Does it have a warp in it and is it getting a good seal? Is there any possibility that your wastegate is stuck in the open position? If you disconnect the actuator, is the rod movable in and out? I cant speak to whether your turbo is water cooled. My 2.8 Deli has a TF-035 which is simply oil cooled. No water. My manual does however show the Pajero having water cooled housings. I am heading into work, I will sit under one of our four 500ish mm wheel diameter MAN NA 34 turbochargers spinning a 22500 rpm for the next 9 hours and think about anything else I can come up with via osmosis. In the meantime see if you can find any more out. .. Also, when you say kazoo like, its hard to judge as Im not there but keep in mind the air filter housing, the air filter and all of the piping to it acts as a silencer so what you hear may be what in fact it actually sounds like when naked.

Rick

[str8gooods]

The sound is still present when all the piping is in place. I think its best if I just pull the turbo out to really get a good look. The wheel spins pretty smoothly but doesn't free spin for more than 1 revolution, but while i move it up and down it doesn't seem to contact the housing. I will try the actuator when I get home tm. The model stamped on the turbo is 49377-03033 if that helps identifying whether it is water, oil, or both.
I have found brand new cores for about $400. Does a core replace the entire guts of the turbo? Or should I just have it rebuilt by someone like Cherry Turbos?
As for the filter, I can't remember which side was which, but it seemed to seal quite well. I have a catch can that I had planned to put on my skyline, So I might try that. It just gets plumed in between the breather hole and the intake pipe correct? Seems easy enough.

[jrrodger]

From the pictures, I think your Turbo is cooked either from oil starvation or the bearings failing (and letting air/oil through the turbo) or both happened at the same time. I see on the Delica.ca trader section someone is selling a used L400 Turbo for like $400. I would do that myself. I doubt it is the wastegate problem mentioned by the other poster but a cheap-and easy test to do.

To answer your other question my 4D56 turbo has an oil inlet/outlet but no coolant line however I understand that some 4M40 turbos do have this coolant line.

I payed a company called Zex racing changed the core (bearings) and the thing was not fixed and it cost me like $700 for nothing. However I didn't take apart the turbo to check to see that they did the work properly or not. The core replacement you mention usually does not include a new shaft and compressor fins which I think could also be damaged. I think from the damage to the compressor fins shows that you have some excessive play and/or a bent shaft hitting the walls of the turbo.

I can try and visit you today (weather is bad) and you can compare with my extra broken turbo if you like.

jrrodger

[str8gooods]

Here is a link to the core I was looking at. It seems to have the shaft and wheels on it.
http://www.turborebuild.co.uk/p/product ... 177-08130/

[RickJ]

"I payed a company called Zex racing changed the core (bearings) and the thing was not fixed and it cost me like $700 for nothing. However I didn't take apart the turbo to check to see that they did the work properly or not."

jrrodger, When you go and use your mechanical judgment on this fellows turbo charger, please check the amount of runout and shaft play using an indicator. Removal of bearing material will show up as excessive shaft play.

"From the pictures", as you say, I cant see anything significant to say that the bearings have failed. You however live in his neighborhood and I in BC so it may be possible that your screen resolution is better. Sure the compressor blades do show some curling, but from what I have seen and experienced, it looks rather insignificant. The oil in the mouth is more indicative of high crankcase pressure venting oil mist back to the inlet.

str8gooods.. You seem to be able to get out there and do some looking before taking it in to a shop and paying someone else to diagnose. Good job. removing the cartridge from the turbo is really not a hard job and may expose the real issue. The cartridge is easily removed by removing the clamp in the center once all of the oil supply and drain lines (coolant too if there), are loosened. Whether it is in fact bearings, or a balance issue ie turbine blade failure, or best case scenario, waste gate held open, the best thing is for you to take a look and get an initial first impression. Check your hoses before and after the intercooler for any splits or holes that would decrease the amount of charge air getting to your manifold. As jrrodger mentioned, take a look at your relief valve to ensure there are no signs of it operating recently. Take a look at the mounting gasket on the exhaust manifold, a blown gasket can sound kazoo like. Any exhaust leakage before the turbine will create a pressure drop before the reaction blades of the turbine. Despite what one may think, the exhaust pressure really isnt as high as a person would expect. The system works on the basis of the exhaust gas being directed into the turbine blades via a nozzle ring and the turbine blades reaction to the gas changing direction across the curve of the blade and giving up its energy across it causing the shaft to rotate. You may find something significant or small but at least you wont feel taken advantage of in the end for not looking yourself. Minor O/haul kits including bearings and oil seals are around the 60 -/+ mark on ebay and there are numerous videos and walk throughs around to do the work yourself using basic hand tools and a torque wrench. Just remember to scribe a line across all of the removed parts so you are able to get them close when reinstalling.

Good luck and please post any findings as it may help the next person with a similar issue.

Rick

[RickJ]

Here are some pics from the last turbo bearing failure I dealt with. Unfortunately the pictures came thru in the reverse. The order of the pics make It look like we replaced the cartridge and it failed but in reality, the cartridge failed, then we replaced it :) This was caused by a red cap plug found squeezed in half and jammed in the oil supply to bearing orifice. These are of the plain bearing variety similar to our mitsi's. OK not really but similar...Because there was ..some.. oil flow to the bearing it took over a year to get to this. It went from 22500 to 500 rpm in about 2 seconds and luckly there was no other damage than what can be seen. The engine survived without a scratch.

[str8gooods]

So I got a call from Cherry Turbos today, and it turns out that the shaft was bent and both wheels were pretty much toast. The bearings were fine. I've ordered stainless turbo-manifold and turbo-dump gaskets, as well as a new downpipe gasket. The oil return gasket was cracked and had leaked oil on the side of the block. I haven't been able to find a metal replacement for a reasonable price. I have the Mitsubishi part number, do you think it is something I could get from a Mitsu dealership out here? I also could not find EGR pipe gaskets. Should I just buy the blanking kit while I'm at it?
On another note, what is the best way to clean the the intercooler piping, and maybe even the intercooler itself.
Thanks for all the help guys.

[RickJ]

Sorry to hear. I really hoped it was something far less expensive. As for the intercooler and piping. The intercooler is just an air to air heat exchanger. I would (and have) remove it and soak it in some water and soap. Same goes for the piping. Let it soak for a day and then rinse it through with clean warm water. Once you are certain it is flushed you can use compressed air to blow any residual moisture out of it. When blowing it through, I would blow backwards from the outlet to the inlet just to ensure any debris from your compressor blades did not enter the intercooler.

[jrrodger]

For the oil feed gasket are you talking about the copper washer send me a picture of what you need? I may have an old one from my damaged turbo that I blew.

For all the gaskets I would recommend going to milneroffroad.com and ordering the whole engine gasket kit as it is pretty cheap like $50 if I recall. Right Drive can order it in for you if you (but they go to the same place in the UK.)

[str8gooods]

The only gaskets I still need are the EGR pipe gaskets, and the oil return (which is the one in the pic).
For the EGR pipe, could i just use some liquid gasket? Or is blank the EGR something you guys would recommend. I've never had any smoke related issues.

[jrrodger]

Oh, I see what you mean, I will check to see if I still have my old one for the oil return.

I thought you meant the washer for the supply. FYI be very careful when tightening the banjo bolt for the supply as it can be broken when over torqued. (mistake a rookie like myself made).

For blocking the EGR I think the liquid gasket products would be what I would do.