L400 Automatic Transmission Won't Engage

[Libor]

Hello everyone I am new to the form and am looking for a little help.

I just purchased my new 1997 L400 Delica (the newer design with second generation fuel delivery system). The vehicle was fresh off the boat and I was driving it from Vancouver to Calgary so that I could register it in AB. Upon stopping in Vernon for one night, in the morning I put it into 'D' and the automatic transmission would not engage the gear. Upon feathering the gas lightly I was able to get it to catch and then everything was fine up until I got close to Calgary. Once in the city it would often remove itself from gear at a light and would not catch again until I lightly feathered the gas again.

Things I have done:

Checked ATF fluid levels and condition: Good colour and no deposits even while running. Fluid smells good and everything seems okay (I should note that it never felt like it was slipping during my drive, once engaged it behaves well).

Upon searching this forum I have discovered how to read the fault codes and was able to diagnose 4 long and 4 short flashes of the 'Neutral' indicator. I have cross referenced this as error 44 Open or Short in Solenoid No. 2 Circuit.

Here is where I run into issues I am normally doing my own repairs/work however this is my first Automatic Transmission and thus I don't have any experience with them. I searched around and have been unable to verify with any certainty where this solenoid is located and how to test it properly (I believe I am supposed to get 11-14Ohm reading somewhere... but I am not sure where/how). I have also read under the Montero repair book where this error code is cross referenced (thus supposedly the transmission is the same) that this error is only read from an electronic fail and there is no sensor or reading on a mechanical fail of the solenoid, thus the issue should be strictly electrical since only that is monitored (not 100% certain of this but it should be accurate).

So I am wondering a few things:

1.) Can anyone post photos of where this sensor is and how to test it aka what to disconnect and where to put the meter?
2.) Does anyone know what part this is and where I can get one (cross reference to a Montero maybe?). So far the Mitsu Dealership has not gotten back to me.
3.) Does anyone have a Delica they are parting out and would be able to provide me with the necessary part.
4.) My last option is a bit drastic and I am not quite there yet but... If anyone is interested in a newer generation 1997 with a class 4 towing hitch (powered), over fenders and mud flaps for protection, no under carriage rust what so ever (Imported as a Grade 4 BB) I might be willing to part with it as I am fairly overwhelmed at work and with family issues (time is a big stressor for me right now) also I have already added in the LED daytime running lights.

She is really quite nice and ideally I would like to keep her with only 126k the condition is excellent. So far I am invested into it at $10k.

Any help would be much appreciated and thank you.

Also when talking with CVI in Richmond BC (they gave her new batteries, new alternator, and checked oil/coolant before I left for the drive) they insist that these transmissions are bullet proof and that is why I am leaning towards it being the sensor if I can find it....

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[Mr. Flibble]

These may help:

http://www.delicaclub.com/viewtopic.php ... 0&p=203845

http://www.delicaclub.com/viewtopic.php?t=1587=tps

[Libor]

Both those posts seem related to the TPS adjustment and unless someone has had a similar issue that was fixed by that I would hesitate to think it is the cause as my symptoms are different. The problem with these is that everyone seems to be having a shifting up/down issue with OD or other gears. I had no issues once it was engaged it would shift fine all through the mountains, OD worked didn't downshift prematurely, the OD button worked and engaged properly when I used it, all of that seemed fine. It only acts up in the sense that it doesn't actually go into gear regardless of which one (Reverse, Drive, L, 2) when it is at a stop, unless I feather the gas a bit then once it 'chooses' to engage it works fine, until I stop again. I still suspect that the Solenoid No 2. is the issue (Unless someone wants to correct me) I believe this is the solenoid that actually engages the Automatic Transmission into gear thus it stands to reason that my error code is pointing me in the right direction.

There are some posts in here with images of people doing the ATF fluid etc, hopefully someone can point out the No 2. solenoid for me on one of them to get me looking in the right place.

I appreciate the help thus far and would be willing to do the TPS if you are fairly confident its worth pursuing.

[Mr. Flibble]

You are the one with the beast in hand, so your idea is probably the correct one. However the most common cause is the TPS issue - it could be too low of an idle preventing it from engaging.

But, as I said, you have looked at your van, and I have not so the solenoid seems like a very logical cause.

[RichD]

I don't see how TPS would cause this condition. Disconnect the TPS altogether and you should have retarded shifting and no overdrive at the worst.

The transmission control electronics (aka ECT) are just a simple logic gate monitoring coolant temp, throttle position, tach, etc and decide whether there is a condition that warrants not increasing load by shifting up. When the TPS is broken it will run like crap but it will shift.

I would look at gear selection system for faults and dump the transmission oil to check filter for tell-tale metal fragments.

[Libor]

I will have a look at the fluid as soon as I can, do you have any feedback on where to look for the 'gear selection' faults?

Its a real shame thusfar, as she starts well in cold weather, and from being underneath I can't find any rust, dirt or wear marks whatsoever the van looks almost new. The transmission however has been opened before as I can see that they used that red sealant to make the gasket instead of the proper factory one. The overall condition seems so good I am shocked that it is having issues.

I have two other tidbits of information, one seeing that it has a hitch it might be that someone overworked the transmission. Two since it did not start when it came off port in Vancouver and had to be towed to CVI for a new alternator it is entirely possible that the towing company did not use a flatbed as request and damaged the tranny that way. Again I am not familiar with Automatics and thus I don't know for sure but I have been told that towing one of these when in gear can cause damage. Does anyone know if this is true, and if so what usually ends up being damaged from such a thing? As I would like to check that too.

I put it up on jackstands today so I could try out gears while it is suspended to see how the wheels spin/react. When trying reverse it made a bit of crunch (not overly loud but as if it engaged and something was not quite lined up) but it did not engage the gear, I am starting to suspect a mechanical failure.

[Libor]

I have an update, I dropped the automatic transmission pan yesterday and drained the fluids. There were no big metal chunks and for the most part the fluid was decent. The magnets had a very fine metallic dust on them which is normal so that is a good sign. I was able to put an ohm meter on each solenoid and they all were at exactly 3ohms. I then moved to apply 12V to each and all made a consistent clicking sound.

I have three things I would like some input/advice on if anyone knows.

1.) Are there markings somewhere on the Tranny that will indicate exactly which model/type it is and if so where do I find them?
2.) Is there a possibility that even though the solenoids sound okay they are not? I ask because the error code told me that Solenoid No. 2 had a short and they all passed the Ohm/Voltage test.
3.) I have attached a photo (solenoids circled in red) does anyone know which one is solenoid no 2?
4.) In the attached photo I circled one item in light blue does anyone know what that is? It had a slightly different connector and measured 3.2k Ohm, thus I did not apply 12V to it.
5.) Any other ideas/input as to what my issue might be?

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Thank you for all the feedback thusfar

[Manitoba deli]

Since the code was "open or short" I would check all the wiring and connections right from the solinoids to the controller boxes. basically inspect all wiring, and take apart all plugs and inspect inside for corrosion or loose/broken connectors. Also, check all ground connections, these must be good for the electronics to function correctly. Did you try disconnecting the battery for 20 minutes or so to reset things and then try the tranny? I have a series 2 here in good working condition that I can test components on and compare to yours, but I will not be able to do so untill the 17th at the earliest. Hope this can be of some help to you.

Jason

[Libor]

Thanks for the reply, I did try a battery reset before dropping the Pan and I got the same results with the Transmission but of course the 44 open/short error code was gone since I reset the CPU.

I appreciate the assistance, and I might take you up on your offer but for the time being I will try to continue with the troubleshooting, I am hoping someone will know the answer to at least a couple of my questions to help me narrow things down a bit more. I have one more question if someone knows, I haven't found where the automatic transmission control module is yet. On the Montero manuals I have found it is under the steering wheel inside the cab. On the Delica it is no there, I get the feeling it is under the hood. Can anyone confirm if it is just underneath the Intercooler? That is where I lose sight of the wiring harness.

[Libor]

Another update, the one sensor that is different (circled in light blue) is the oil temperature sensor.

[Libor]

For anyone that may be interested I have done a full fluid flush, put in some new ATF and a new filter into the automatic transmission. I performed a few more tests including a Torque Converter stall test which cut out at 2,000 rpm which is a bit early as the documentation I have states 2,400 - 2,900 rmp is normal. Also when draining the ATF cooler I noticed that sometimes the ATF would not flow right away upon starting the engine and it also seemed like it cut out at lest once (looking for feedback if other have had this happen and if it is normal behaviour).

The recent fluid change improved the operational performance and I have had the issue mostly disappear but will continue to troubleshoot it.

[Big-Bird]

Towing a RWD automatic with the rear wheels on the ground and tranny in neutral can take out the front pump or at the very least damage the internal pump mechanism through dry running. The pump can't develop enough fluid pressure to engage the clutch packs properly.....translation poor engagement or no engagement.

Sounds like you have tested all the electronic parts out. I have a pressure tester for oil/hydraulic fluid that can be connected to the oil sending unit on your tranny. It will tell if proper pressure is being generated by the pump. I think Parts Source might even have this kit in their loan-a-tool program.

In the event you were not aware....there is an online manual for all Deli's.

Heres the tranny section and yes it does cover your model year.
http://www.delica.ca/forum/l-400-automa ... -7489.html

[Libor]

Thanks for the feedback, I definitely think this might be something that will come back so I may do this test. Another bit of information I got from a Transmission specialist is that it is possible that when the transmission sits for a long time sometimes the clutch plates can dry out as well and this can cause them to warp upon starting to use the vehicle again. He stated its good if it is working now but if it comes back a rebuild would be best.

Just an FYI for those in the Calgary region the store 'Mr. Transmission' gave me this advice, and they said the Transmissions are common and they are willing to work on it. Rebuild is $2500 or $2000 if you bring in the Transmission off the vehicle already. I thought it would be handy to mention as I had some trouble finding a shop that would be willing to work on the Auto from my RHD. This guy said it would be no problem.

I will update this post if something else comes up but for the time being I will consider it tentatively closed.

Thank you all for the help/feedback.

[Libor]

Problem solved. I have recently found a small leak in the ATF lines to the radiator. Upon fixing this and taking the Deli to a transmission specialist who confirmed everything is fine and stated that the symptoms I was having are those of low fluid. I was able to put the picture together, slow leak, fluid got low and it started to have trouble with 'pressure' since it was low. Changed fluid, fixed leak and problem is gone. She runs great now!

Thanks all for the help.