Warm vs Cold Start up - bit baffled

[Orionsbelt]

Took my truck to a mechanic top get the fuel filter done. All the in/out hoses look fine BUT since then (winter) it's having more trouble starting even when it's not that cold out and not plugged in. I'm talking -5 or so...requires some cranks and wants to cut out - so quite rough for a bit. In fact had a hell of a time starting it in -10 after sitting all day. Never used to have that before... God love getting your truck back and having something new not working.

New batteries - New alternator
New 12 v glow plugs (Thx Erik) (manual system) - not sure how long I should hold that button for with these 12v's though? I've been experimenting and doesn't seem to make much of a difference on the real cold days not plugged in.

I plug it in no problem. Fires up pretty good...same amount of smoke as before (soon will do Seafoam tune with in/out hoses). Once warm it runs good and starts up good.
I don't plug it in...that's when the trouble starts until I get it warm.

I primed it via the fuel filter primer one day...can't say it made any difference.

If a little air were seeping in somewhere would that cause it? I haven't checked the relay for the manual glow plug system yet but if that was on the fritz it would start at all cold.

What the hell is going on with this thing? IP?

Orion

[Orionsbelt]

Didn't plug it in at -1 and it sat for more than 12 hrs...it didn't fire right up pushing the 12 v manual glow plug system for at least 10-12 seconds.

Ok waited for the first half ass cold day at -5 to test the difference priming it would make.

It definitely started easier although I also held the glow plug button for longer.

Injectors, IP, air some how getting into the lines??

All of the above..?

O

[LeeHammy]

I wouldn't worry to much about it. Mine is like that as well. I usually click on the glow plugs 3 times and it helps it flash up quicker. But plugging it in is always a good idea and no one will think any less of you for doing that in 2 deg weather either, it cant hurt but not plugging it in can. You could also install an oil heater for real cold weather.. be kind to your engine by not trying to pump molasses through it.

[Orionsbelt]

Thanks Lee... Good to know I'm not the only one struggling with these in colder weather or not so colder as the case seems to be.

That said it started easier before I took it to the mechanic. I would never plug it in at -5.

I'm going to do a few things...change the in/out fuel lines between filter and engine, and do the poor man's injector cleaning.

And...Jesse posted this...about the fuel tank vent valve
http://www.delica.ca/forum/fuel-tank-ve ... tml#p98492

I just gotta find it.

Orion

[Orionsbelt]

Update and still baffled...perhaps more now.

Truck sitting all night (+ 10 hrs), Temp +6 in the morning...and the trouble starting this thing has persisted. No I didn't plug it in.

The one common denominator has been engine warm vs cold. If I plug it in then I don't really get the issue. Doesn't start great and certainly not as good as before but I certainly don't get the starting issues.

So...Tested the glow plugs manually - no problem. Even test the older one's I took out - no problem. All started to glow within seconds.
Tested the manual system - no problem.

Doesn't blow smoke once warm.

I've also been monitoring fuel mileage since driving this thing for more than 1 yr now. Seems to be worsening a tad...

Thoughts?

[nvanadm]

Obviously something is not working propery. I don't think any manufacturer would design a truck that didn't start at -5 or even zero. I live in Ontario now and have a block heater installed, but last winter I didn't have anywhere to plug it in so I didn't ever use it. Van started fine at -20 and even colder days no problem. I know you have a Paj, but shouldn't matter.
Hmmm. Puzzling. Are you sure the glow plugs are 12v? Have you checked the sensor on the bottom of the fuel filter to make sure it's snug? Inlet outlet to fuel filter snug and clamped properly.
Sorry I can't be of more help.

[lopar]

New injectors fixed my cold/smoky starts the most........ many different reasons, and combinations of, are possible though, what worked for one, may or may not be your culprit.

Also might want to eliminate any bad connection problems to glow plugs and run separate wires from relay to each plug, search thread.

[GISdood]

I had the same problem for quite a while the first winter we had our Paj here in northern BC. Had a diesel shop clean the injectors, and it still stumbled, stalled, then was difficult to restart when cold (especially below -10). At the time, I was only using an oilpan heater as I hadn't been able to source a suitable block heater yet.

After some digging around on the UK-based Pajero owner's forum, (http://www.pocuk.com/forums/), it seemed that the consensus was that an age-hardened seal on the front of the injector pump was the problem. The seal hardens with age, allowing air to be sucked in, causing the rough starts, stalls, and difficult restarts.

The seal kit itself if pretty inexpensive, being a generic Bosch pump, the labor is the pricey part if you're not up to tackling it yourself.

The part circled in red is the culprit:


Once I had the new injector pump seal put in, the stalling never happened again. Granted, if its -20 and I forget to plug in the block heater, the starts are still rough... but it will start.

Hope that helps... good luck!

[Orionsbelt]

Ok thanks for the info.

@ GISdood - According to Butch CV motors in BC the IP's on this model yr were good. Not ruling it out but hopefully that's not it. I looked into the front seal before and I really hope that's not it. That will be the last resort.

@ nvanadm - thanks I'll check all connections...the fuel filter was one of the things I had the mechanic replace. The hoses are a bit loose in that I can turn them so maybe that's it.

NOTE: If I prime it from the fuel filter it starts a lot easier. Does that mean I'm pushing any air that might have seeped in out of the system?

Orion

[Orionsbelt]

Thought I'd offer an update.

Got out to Squamish for some climbing and coordinated a trip to CVI while out there.

Deli Tune - consisting of cleaning the injectors and advancing the timing (IP which I assume is the engine as well).

Runs awesome...good bye smoke unless I hit the fuel but usually don't have to as it just starts up.

If anyone out there is having smoke problems get your injectors looked at.

Orion

[mararmeisto]

Compression-ignition engines rely quite heavily on the stored heat of the combustion chamber to fully burn the fuel in the chamber. While the glow plug presents a "hot spot" to help start the process when the engine is cold, an oil pan warmer helps by keeping the oil warm and fluid (in order to aid lubrication), and a water plug will also help by keeping the cooling water warm in the water jacket, but this is still not enough heat compared to after the engine has been running for a while.

Be thankful you don't live in Siberia where a diesel engine may continue to struggle to get warm after running for hours.

[Spearo]

Glad to see you got it sorted.... mine was exactly the same until I did the injectors too. Now it has done a few Winters where it can sit out in a windy parking lot at -25C and still start (better with 3 rounds of glow plugs). That said, it gets plugged in at home for sure.

Erik

[Firesong]

And I would bet advancing the timing would help too.
If it's retarded too much, white smoke and crappy at warming up.

We learned that :)
FS

[403delica]

Sorry not trying to jack the thread... but i have a similar issue, mine will start fine and run beautifully for 1-2 min in temperature around minus 6. But then the glow plugs shut off and its smokey and misfiring for the next min. Is the run time of the glow plugs temperature controlled? if so what sensor controls it? My IP seal was done 3 months ago and its not plugged in either

[phil-lester]

I have the same issue and have had a few things done to try to fix it. Last resort for me is the front pump seal which I am going in to get changed in a week. I'll let you know the outcome. Talk to the guys at coombs though they are really good at troubleshooting even over the phone and are super friendly.