GLOW PLUG rant **&^%$#@!

[Artie Fufkin]

Ok, my patience has run out with some of you mechanics on this forum.

Part #1:
I'm making a short list of the obvious handful who know exactly what they are talking about. So far is a VERY short list. I'm disgusted by the MECHANICS who claim to be professionals and are making a living working on these Mitsu's and are obviously clueless in certain areas. What's wrong with saying the words I DO NOT KNOW THE CORRECT ANSWER?

Oh yes, money. Well in this day an age when money is getting short for so many to maintain our vehicles I gotta tell ya, mechanics that cost us unnecessary money and or cause unnecessary damage to our vehicles because of their lack of proper knowledge deserve a little more than a man to man chat.

I am by no means a mechanic but I am in the top 10 in the world at what I do for a living. Many people consult with me and ALWAYS get professional, experience and theory proven repeatable SOLUTIONS.

What am I pissed off about? Glow Plugs.

Before I had a clue about where to get parts/the correct part I made some errors in the learning process, like many of you. I had no clue this GP system is 6v and purchased a set from a vender on the UK who assured me they were the correct ones for my model/year/chassis #. LUCKLY I never installed them, because he sold me 12 v plugs.

MONEY WASTED. New in the box doing nothing.

A mechanic at a shop on this forum posted advice on an after market GP that works in the 4d56t engine. He reported installing many of them in customers vehicles and everyone reported have much quicker and smoother starts.

I did a bit more research to understand the 6v system and why so many are having problems getting the correct plug function. It became clear quickly one of the major factors is the resistance, not just the voltage.

Well, I discovered there's A LOT more to it than that. The 6v system is VERY sensitive and requires only the real Mitsu. green tops. Its not so much the glow plug that makes it sensitive but the specs of the control circuit. To be honest THAT pisses me off too ! Why reinvent the damn wheel. Well, obviously Mitsu dropped this stupid 6v/control circuit.

So this is exactly what happened:

- starting was getting very difficult in colder temps and obviously GP's needed replacing

- a week ago replaced GP's with highly recommended OEM's and startups were amazingly better. (no frickin' kidding, they were OVERHEATING so much its not funny), you could start anything with that if your willing to incur the potential damage). Noticed a slightly longer duration between 1st & 2nd click, not much, maybe a second or two longer at most. Very little but just enough to notice it. Remaining clicks were same as before. Just discovered from good posts on here I need to replace coolant sensor with a genuine Mitsu.

- today noticed 1st and 2nd clicks were as expected but no other clicks. When I thought about it realized it did same thing yesterday but there was one click a long duration after the first two.

> I shut it off for a bit and opened the hood. Turned key, waited for 2 clicks and turned it over. Walked over to relay side and observed. I have quick disconnects on my batteries for a charger that each have a simple red/yellow/green led to give a very general indicator of battery charge. Well, this is the first time I have seen the vehicle RUNNING with them in the red. I thought to myself "I bet its going to have one last very long duration click and the led's will go straight to green". Thats exactly what it did.

So, this is OBVIOUSLY placing huge unnecessary strain on my batteries and of course the alternator to recharge them. I have no idea if its done anything to my GP control board.

Here's the point. If this BULLSHIT ill-informed recommendation on OEM plugs by a professional mechanic costs me one penny due to damage I'm gonna pay you a visit and have a man to man talk with ya you f**** idiot. The loss for the GP's that I now obviously should have
put into the genuine Mitsu's is now more WASTED MONEY.

Being the reasonable man that I am I understand mystery problems like mystery noises or mystery electrical issues are a bit of a guessing game even for the most educated and experienced professionals BUT....

.... when the SOLUTION is a clear known (ie: replace the GP's) wtf are you clowns doing dishing out the incorrect information on the part???

NOW I know why the OBVIOUS informed few on here say go with genuine green tops. The rest of ya can take a hike, your a joke.



Part #2:
Today's current solution is to replace the worn out originals before any (more) real damage occurs and endure the tough starts until I can replace with the real deal. When I'm able to do that I'll send in the old ones to someone who OBVIOUSLY knows what they are doing to be cleaned and re-calibrated for spares.

Part #3:
Like some of you I'm sure your annoyed that Mitsu designed such an unnecessarily sensitive circuit. I DO NOT like the manual switch idea but have read recommendations on ripping out the ENTIRE system and replacing it with something more reasonably priced, more reliable and more readily available like the Mercedes relay controller.

At this time I do not know if this is a direction worth pursuing. If entire system is ripped out and replaced with something much better designed at this stage that seems logical to look into. Any real pro's looked into this?

PISSED OFF at some of you mechanic jokers.

And THANK YOU to the handful that really know their stuff.

Artie

[Fishtank]

Wow Artie,

Does this describe your feelings?





Just a few questions for you, don't take them the wrong way. I'm not a mechanic either, just handy.

Was the advice you received mostly over PM's?

Did you search the forum topics for similar problems from other members to see what others solutions were?

Why would you purchase glow plugs from the UK when they are available here?



I understand relying on advice from a mechanic at a shop, but to me, replacing one part with a different one is only good when it's an upgrade.

Just changing a part to another because it should work is never a good idea for the reasons you listed above.

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

Was the advice you received mostly over PM's?
Why would you purchase glow plugs from the UK when they are available here?

Very intereting.


FYI, if you have a 'Super Quick Glow Plug System' in perfect working condition, do not replace old ones with 11V glow plugs.

Here are fact;
Delica L300 (pre 1991) has 'Auto Glow Plug System' which uses 12V glow plugs with one relay.

Delica L300 (1991 - 1993) has 'Super Quick Glow Plug System' which was designed to shorten the glow plug warm up time. To shorten the duration, they used 6.2V glow plugs (on glow plug, it is written 6.2V [12V]) rather than 12V ones that they used earlier, with two relays (one for before-start and the other for after-start to prevent the burnout of glow plugs) and a dropping resistor. The main disadvantage of this system is that glow plugs were much easier to burn out because of the voltage. Hence, glow plugs needed to be replaced earlier than anticipated. Imagine the second relay is dead. That means your glow plugs will fail soon from overheating.

Delica L300 (post 1993) has 'Self Regulating Glow Plug System' which uses 11V glow plugs with one relay. If you understand what is written above, you will understand why Mitsubishi abandoned 6.2V glow plug system with two relays.

Delica L400 is the same as Delica L300 (post 1993) - 11V.

The key to understand the logic behind this is 'CURRENT' not the voltage. The range of current going through glow plugs on Delica L300 (1991 - 1993) is (80A to 40A). If you measure the current going through Hyundai glow plugs on the same model year, the range is (60A to 40A). This means, the glow plug warm up time for some 11V glow plugs is little slower than 6.2V ones.
However, the most important thing is that there is no overheating problem. Good ones have 'built-in resistor' (variable resistance versus temperature) to prevent overheating.


Steven

[mararmeisto]

Was the advice you received mostly over PM's?
Why would you purchase glow plugs from the UK when they are available here?

Very intereting.

Steven

What's even more interesting is that he's driving a Pajero and neither an L300 nor an L400.

Of course, if it's an older one, it just might have the 6.2vdc system same as an L300, in which case I would recommend getting proper Mitsubishi plugs. Whatever those Mitsubishi engineers put together, that Super Rapid Glow system is pretty particular about the plugs it requires.

[thedjjack]

I posted the Bosch Glow Plug Specs Catalogue recently and it shows all dimensions and power requirements of the different plugs used in these two engines and I agree most Dealers seem to be OVER simplifying and putting the wrong plugs in these motors.

How many post do we need to see "changed my glow plugs now my ECU doesn't work" = wrong plugs 99% of the time.

Personally l love the Mercedes system and when I get the problems or move back to a climate I cannot "cold start" if I had to...bye bye ECU...hello Mercedes $100.00 simple controller.

Rant earned....

[tonydca]

How 'bout this as a Public Service Announcement going forward...

Rather than relying upon looking at the existing plugs to tell what kind of replacement ones a vehicle needs (in case a previous owner already replaced them incorrectly), is there a way to tell what plugs are needed from a part number/labelling on the Mitsubishi Glow Plug Controller circuit/BlackBox itself (or likewise be able to tell if the OEM control unit has been replaced by the absence of said part)?

Ya know, rather than say "You have a '92 L300, therefore you *must* need XXX plugs".

I have experience with a sample set of exactly 1 (my L400) so I'm no expert, but I'm sure many on this forum have had enough vehicles thru their hands to give an informed answer.

Anyone?

[psilosin]

How 'bout this as a Public Service Announcement going forward...

Rather than relying upon looking at the existing plugs to tell what kind of replacement ones a vehicle needs (in case a previous owner already replaced them incorrectly), is there a way to tell what plugs are needed from a part number/labelling on the Mitsubishi Glow Plug Controller circuit/BlackBox itself (or likewise be able to tell if the OEM control unit has been replaced by the absence of said part)?

Ya know, rather than say "You have a '92 L300, therefore you *must* need XXX plugs".

I have experience with a sample set of exactly 1 (my L400) so I'm no expert, but I'm sure many on this forum have had enough vehicles thru their hands to give an informed answer.

Anyone?

This is my thoughts exactly. Why is this such a complicated topic. On the Toyotas you lookup your chassis number, get a part number, get the part...done.

Is there no Mitsubishi EPC floating around the interwebs?

[tonydca]

Right, but rather than relying solely on the chassis info, if the glow plug controller itself has a part number stamped in/on it, one could double-check by going:

"I have a '94 Pajero SWB 4M40; it's factory GPC is part #M1234ABCD which uses 11V plugs, Mitsu part #M111XYZ"

Look under the hood at the GPC, and there is the box with "M1234ABCD" stamped on it. Bring on the 11V plugs!

Or if the GPC has some different part number on it, bring on Google and the WWW and a bit more research before we start swapping parts.

A lot of things can change on a vehicle in 15 years and multiple owners...

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

Was the advice you received mostly over PM's?
Why would you purchase glow plugs from the UK when they are available here?

Very intereting.

Steven

What's even more interesting is that he's driving a Pajero and neither an L300 nor an L400.

No matter what you drive ( delica, spacegear or pajero two model ), I gave clear answer for glow plug application.
When we say delica, of course most of the time it includes pajero as well.
Basic principles are the same when it comes to 4D56/4M40 engines.

I never gave any advice for 6.2V glow plug source and its quality because I don’t carry it.
But if you have basically super quick glow plug system with faulty ECU, 11V glow plugs are better than 6.2V glow plugs under primitive manual switch ( that is not a system. ).

I believe most glow plugs are sold in UK are being sold in Canada as well by some dealers, but I am very doubt its quality.
So “group buy for 6.2 original glow plugs “ plan is a best solution at better price.

Steven

[tonydca]

Personally l love the Mercedes system and when I get the problems or move back to a climate I cannot "cold start" if I had to...bye bye ECU...hello Mercedes $100.00 simple controller.

Rant earned....

Amen to that. Doesn't even need to cost that much! Add in a push button and you're good to go in a single package:

http://www.automation.com/content/autom ... st7-series

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

How 'bout this as a Public Service Announcement going forward...

Rather than relying upon looking at the existing plugs to tell what kind of replacement ones a vehicle needs (in case a previous owner already replaced them incorrectly), is there a way to tell what plugs are needed from a part number/labelling on the Mitsubishi Glow Plug Controller circuit/BlackBox itself (or likewise be able to tell if the OEM control unit has been replaced by the absence of said part)?

Ya know, rather than say "You have a '92 L300, therefore you *must* need XXX plugs".

I have experience with a sample set of exactly 1 (my L400) so I'm no expert, but I'm sure many on this forum have had enough vehicles thru their hands to give an informed answer.

Anyone?

This is my thoughts exactly. Why is this such a complicated topic. On the Toyotas you lookup your chassis number, get a part number, get the part...done.

Is there no Mitsubishi EPC floating around the interwebs?

Good idea, but in reality we easily can’t find an aftermarket GP with good working condition through original part numbers.
Of course you got no problem to get it from Mitsubishi Japan with chassis number, but price is no kidding.
That’s why people are looking for cheap/good alternative GP from other source.

Steven

[tonydca]

Good idea, but in reality we easily can’t find an aftermarket GP with good working condition through original part numbers.
Of course you got no problem to get it from Mitsubishi Japan with chassis number, but price is no kidding.
That’s why people are looking for cheap/good alternative GP from other source.

Steven

Yeah, but at least the part # on the GPC unit will tell you if you need 6.2V or 11V plugs (which seems to be the major issue here)

If you need 6.2V plugs, it looks like your only smart option is the OEM Green-tops like jfarsang is planning to get in bulk.

If 11V, apparently you can be a little less discerning on your source. As far a non-Mitsu parts go, from my experience, HKT ones were not working well at all, but the Hyundai ones I got from CVI are working great. NGK part#CY55 from the UK also seem to have good reviews for the 11V systems.

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

Good idea, but in reality we easily can’t find an aftermarket GP with good working condition through original part numbers.
Of course you got no problem to get it from Mitsubishi Japan with chassis number, but price is no kidding.
That’s why people are looking for cheap/good alternative GP from other source.

Steven

Yeah, but at least the part # on the GPC unit will tell you if you need 6.2V or 11V plugs (which seems to be the major issue here)

If you need 6.2V plugs, it looks like your only smart option is the OEM Green-tops like jfarsang is planning to get in bulk.

If 11V, apparently you can be a little less discerning on your source. As far a non-Mitsu parts go, from my experience, HKT ones were not working well at all, but the Hyundai ones I got from CVI are working great. NGK part#CY55 from the UK also seem to have good reviews for the 11V systems.

x2.
Steven

[jessef]

11V glow plugs are better than 6.2V glow plugs under primitive manual switch ( that is not a system. ).

Manual switch cannot be encouraged

Which is it?

In one thread you don't encourage it and in another you do. As a dealer who is very active in this forum giving advise to other members, saying one thing in one thread and the complete opposite in another is not good advice-giving practice.

We became the number one top seller for Delica

If you were a single member it wouldn't make any difference but you are touting yourself as the #1 Delica seller, so you better get your claims and words straight otherwise you'll be the boy who cried wolf all over again.

[thedjjack]

I will post this in this thread again...gives Bosch numbers but more importantly the specs for different systems

See the back of this catalogue for all the specs on glow plugs:

Bosch Makes glow plugs for the Delica (L300&L400) from the Bosch.au website:



See page 28 of 88:
http://www.bosch.com.au/content/languag ... _Ready.pdf