Gasoline does not work on a Diesel

[impalator]

Hi everybody,

I just finished a search on the forum for all of the following topics:

- drain fuel tank
- accidentally filled gasoline instead of diesel
- bleed fuel pump

and could not come up with a specific answer to the following question:

My wife accidentally put regular gas in the deli at Chevron as the pump's buttons were yellow and the pump nozzle black (typically - in my experience - pump buttons for gasoline are green or red and the nozzle for gasoline is usually also green or red - whereas Diesel is always yellow or black...)..

At any rate, the van is stranded now and I need to get all the gasoline fuel out of the tank AND the fuel line AND the injection pump...

I've read before on how to bleed air out of the injection pump but was wondering if there is an "all comprehensive step-by-step" process that one should undertake when attempting to drain all the fuel out of a full tank.

There are a couple of more questions that I would like to clarify prior to attempting this process:

- With that said, is it necessary to siphon the tanks empty or is there a drain plug or drain valve that can be opened?
- And how can I make sure (seeing that there are two connected tanks) that I get the both of them empty?
- If, say, I get most of the gas out but can't get the last 4 or 5 liters out, would it be ok to fill up on Diesel and "dillute" the gas? Or will this damage my fuel system / engine?

If somebody could maybe even share some pics (I remember reading about a little lever on the IP that one needs to pump to bleed air in the fuel line out) - but a picture of what that lever/button looks like would be huge...

I guess, once I have the tanks emptied of gas, refilled with diesel and the IP bled so that Diesel spews out of the bleeding valve, I will simply have to "crank the hell" out of the starter until it fires... are there any issues or challenges (aside from nicely charged batteries of course) that I need to be aware of?

Thanks in advance for any help that you could provide...

The diesel-delica-saga continues... never a dull moment... we've had about a year of "peace" now... it was about time something goes South...

Thanks and have a great day!

Cheers,
Chris

[FalcoColumbarius]

Here is one link: http://www.delica.ca/forum/sick-pajero-3909.html

There was another post about a guy in his Paj having discovered a gas station attendant had topped up his tank with gas instead of diesel. It wasn't all that long ago but I can't seem to find it just yet. Hope this helps, Chris.

Falco.

[jessef]

Chris,

This happened to a buddy with an L300 last year. Almost empty and filled it up with gasoline.

Step 1.
remove the inlet (from the fuel tank) hose at the fuel filter (this will allow air in to gravity feed gas left in the line towards the tank).

Step 2.
You have a drain plug (12mm bolt) under the fuel tank. Grab a bunch of buckets and spill tray and drain all the gas until empty. Don't forget to put the drain plug back in

Step 3.
put the inlet fuel line hose back on the filter and remove the outlet hose (going to the injection pump). Then pump the primer (push button ontop of filter) until all the gas is out of the filter. *you can also remove the filter and empty it out as well.

Step 4.
Fill up the tank with diesel and then prime the system, crack the 10mm bleed screw on the fuel filter housing and pump until diesel comes out with no bubbles.

Step 5.
Get in, push the pedal to the floor and start the deli - crank ... crank ... keep cranking until the engines catches and starts running. It will be a smokeshow and rough for a min but keep your foot on the pedal. Do not let it idle down and die.

The diesel will get sucked in and you're good to go.

[TardisDeli]

Chris, Dont try starting it, bad damage running gas thru engine (I had diesel VW that got gassed).

Phone me, I don't have yr number, I will pick you up (I think you only have the one vehicle), I have tool kit, will bring buckets. Sending you PM with my phone.

Christine.

[TardisDeli]

Hi, Just to update everyone .... his wife and his Delica are in Hundred Mile House, at the brothers house (so they are both safe and sound).

I phoned Chris, he is at home in Vancouver. The brother has tools etc, and buddies with knowledge (one buddy gassed his own diesel cummins a couple days ago so has lotsa knowledge).

Chris will go up there later this week, so he can show them where the drain points are. I will show Chris on my delica where the drain plugs and fuel lines are, I will give him my 2 spare fuel filters (see why I need to keep spares for the Delica community).

Jesse thanks for your prompt and great description of the drain points.

My concern now ... how much damage has been done to the diesel engine, as it was almost empty when filled with 56 litres of gasoline, then driven 40 km to Seventy Mile House, where it stopped running (I don't have any details on what noises it made, etc) then tow truck with a flat bed took it back to brothers house at Hundred Mile House.

So, what spare parts should he take, what tests to determine engine damage.

Christine.

[jessef]

My concern now ... how much damage has been done to the diesel engine, as it was almost empty when filled with 56 litres of gasoline, then driven 40 km to Seventy Mile House, where it stopped running (I don't have any details on what noises it made, etc) then tow truck with a flat bed took it back to brothers house at Hundred Mile House.

none. in fact, it will have cleaned out the injectors.

some people put a few litres of gasoline in the diesel tank for that purpose.

Rick drove from Maple ridge to downtown van and back only on gas before it conked out. he had to do the steps I listed above and it's fine.

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

My concern now ... how much damage has been done to the diesel engine, as it was almost empty when filled with 56 litres of gasoline, then driven 40 km to Seventy Mile House, where it stopped running (I don't have any details on what noises it made, etc) then tow truck with a flat bed took it back to brothers house at Hundred Mile House.

So, what spare parts should he take, what tests to determine engine damage.

Christine.

Could be a cylinder head ( valve, valve seat ) and IP damage.
Very high possibility. too bad.

Open the head, and all check surfaces for crack/broken.
If you have a broken cyinder head, you may need a IP complete rebuilt.
We have done this job a 2 weeks back.

Steven

[nxski]

This happened to Pajerry when a station attendant absentmindedly filled his tank with gas. I believe he just siphoned it out, put in diesel, ran it rough for a while and no problems since. No matter what the outcome you're lucky it wasn't reversed (putting diesel in a gas vehicle).

[vixentd]

40 kms on almost straight diesel will probably have resulted in cylinder head damage and a destroyed Injection pump. A flush and new filters as outlined is worth a try.

In winter VW used to recommend in their 1980 owners manual that you could run up to 20% gasoline to avoid gelling of fuel. Any gasoline now in the new common rail diesel spells immediate disaster and the complete fuel system must be replace at a cost of about $10,000. There is currently a class action lawsuit started as the pump wears and sends small pieces of metal throughout the injection system, also destroying the pump in the process. Be thankful it is an older style diesel injection. VW claims the high pressure fuel pumps are failing as the diesel has been contaminated with gasoline!
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=284441

The problem is multi-faceted. It is a function of the completely different burn characteristics of the fuels (volatile and explosive gasoline versus high flash point diesel fuel), and the peculiarities of engine design in regards to how fuel is ignited (spark ignition versus compression ignition). Gasoline is formulated to resist auto-ignition in a spark engine (see octane), so this fuel introduced into a diesel engine either won't ignite or will (much more likely) ignite at the wrong time causing severe detonation. Though diesel engine reciprocating components (pistons, wrist pins and connecting rods) are built to withstand enormous explosive force, the shock wave effects of uncontrolled detonation can easily destroy them.

In addition to the specific burn characteristics that diesel fuel and biodiesel afford to compression ignition diesel engines, the fuel itself acts as a lubricant for the fuel pump and delivery system as well as the valve train (recall that diesel fuel is actually a very light oil). Running thin, low viscosity gasoline through a diesel fuel system would starve it for lubrication and cause those sensitive components to rub together (metal-to-metal) eventually destroying them.

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

40 kms on almost straight diesel will probably have resulted in cylinder head damage and a destroyed Injection pump. A flush and new filters as outlined is worth a try.

In winter VW used to recommend in their 1980 owners manual that you could run up to 20% gasoline to avoid gelling of fuel. Any gasoline now in the new common rail diesel spells immediate disaster and the complete fuel system must be replace at a cost of about $10,000. There is currently a class action lawsuit started as the pump wears and sends small pieces of metal throughout the injection system, also destroying the pump in the process. Be thankful it is an older style diesel injection. VW claims the high pressure fuel pumps are failing as the diesel has been contaminated with gasoline!
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=284441

The problem is multi-faceted. It is a function of the completely different burn characteristics of the fuels (volatile and explosive gasoline versus high flash point diesel fuel), and the peculiarities of engine design in regards to how fuel is ignited (spark ignition versus compression ignition). Gasoline is formulated to resist auto-ignition in a spark engine (see octane), so this fuel introduced into a diesel engine either won't ignite or will (much more likely) ignite at the wrong time causing severe detonation. Though diesel engine reciprocating components (pistons, wrist pins and connecting rods) are built to withstand enormous explosive force, the shock wave effects of uncontrolled detonation can easily destroy them.

In addition to the specific burn characteristics that diesel fuel and biodiesel afford to compression ignition diesel engines, the fuel itself acts as a lubricant for the fuel pump and delivery system as well as the valve train (recall that diesel fuel is actually a very light oil). Running thin, low viscosity gasoline through a diesel fuel system would starve it for lubrication and cause those sensitive components to rub together (metal-to-metal) eventually destroying them.

Very informative.
Good point and fact.

This happened to Pajerry when a station attendant absentmindedly filled his tank with gas. I believe he just siphoned it out, put in diesel, ran it rough for a while and no problems since. No matter what the outcome you're lucky it wasn't reversed (putting diesel in a gas vehicle).

Depending on how long you have driven before engine stop.
Everybody wants cheap solution here, but fact is a fact.

Steven

[jessef]

driving it for 4,000 km's on gas will nuke the engine for certain.

40 km's on gas will probably not do a thing for the exception of starving the engine of fuel and just stalling on the side of the road like what you described.

Same thing with Rick like I posted above. He filled up on empty and drove from maple ridge to Vancouver and back (120km's) on straight gas and it stalled close to his house. Did the steps above and it's logged over 40,000km's since.

I could see if he drove it for thousands of km's but only a few km's does not mean doomsday like rising sun is implying.

I think it's a ratio of 40:1 of people who filled up/drove on gas in their 4D56's and survived without any fuss compare to the one single instance where the head needed to be replaced due to overheating.

Hope for the best and get the gas out, fresh dino in. If you're fortunate like Rick, Yannick and the many others who have accidentally put gasoline in, driven a short distance, stalled, purged and still works, then it's a good day

[Manitoba deli]

I hate to say it, but with the amount of gasoline put in, I would expect to see costly damage. There would not have been a lot of diesel left to mix with the gas. If it had only been 15 or 20 liters to top off a tank of diesel, I would say it could swing either way, but 56l into an almost empty tank, Ouch. Here's hoping it will be a miraculous cheap fix.

Jason

[Mr. Flibble]

Well, you should be ok as long as you did not put NOS in it:

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226570

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

I hate to say it, but with the amount of gasoline put in, I would expect to see costly damage. There would not have been a lot of diesel left to mix with the gas. If it had only been 15 or 20 liters to top off a tank of diesel, I would say it could swing either way, but 56l into an almost empty tank, Ouch. Here's hoping it will be a miraculous cheap fix.

Jason

We had a customer who accidentally put $60 gasoline in the fuel tank ( L400 ) while receiving a call.
He drove appro.20km, and apparently felt bad around 1500-2000rpm with engine stall and strong smell. Also he had a late start problem ( still running ).
After lots of checking/inspection, it ended up cylinder head damage, IP seizure and full fuel line damage.
It cost him over $4,000.

It could happen.

Steven

[thedjjack]

Try and get as much out as you can...I would crack the fuel injector lines if it was started on gas so the iinjector pump has unlead in it....

1980 said mix unlead...but newer injector pumps do not always like gas (kills the seals)

If it was started or cranked on unlead try to get as much out as possible...and chanige fuel filter...

Drain and fill up and you should be fine..