timing on a 2.5l 4d56

[92pajero]

Ok gents, here we go. So driving my pajero the other day and she starts sounding more like a diesel than usual the rattle of the ford diesel now other than the non rattle mitsu I was used to. So just to be safe I did the valve lash again at operating temp and this helped ever so slightly. Now I lined up my cam shaft and IP with the timing marks and lo and behold the crankshaft timing mark was still an inch from being where it was supposed to be on timing belt cover marker. Is it possible I slipped a tooth or two on the belt without destroying my engine and now its sounding like an old ford diesel due to this. Also morning cold starts are a bit of a b*&ch. It still runs and goes and pulls it just sounds like an old ford and smokes due to inefficient burn of the fuel. Has anyone come across this before or can lend me a hand/idea? I am going to drive 23 hrs starting friday pulling a trailer, would rather have this somewhat resolved before taking off. By the way I am not burning oil or getting any diesel in the crankcase so I know its not bad rings. I think the hammering is due to injectors opening to soon causing the rattle from predetonation of fuel and perhaps the timing is out a tooth or two on the crank side. Let me know soonest since I will be taking her apart starting tomorrow AM. If it wont run with the timing out by a tooth or two let me know before I start tearing it down.


Kelly

[jessef]

What you could be hearing is from advancing your timing too much.

You get a distinct TDI diesel sound (direct injection cummins example) from an IDI engine like the 4D56T if you advance the timing above the norm.

Most, if not all diesels from Japan come to Canada with retarded timing. Advancing it is common practice.

If you don't have the dial/tool, I would recommend to either get one or take it to a shop to set the proper timing and advance from there if you need to.

Advanced Timing :

1) Hotter Combustion Temperatures.
2) Colder EGT.
3) More Power.
4) Decreased fuel consumption.


Retarded Timing:

1) Lower Combustion Temperatures
2) Hotter EGT.
3) Reduced Power
4) Increased fuel consumption.

[92pajero]

OK thanks for the info, my question is it was running fine then after a long run with several hills and perhaps shitty fuel it started to do the cummins rattle. Is it possible that the belt slipped a tooth or 2 on the drive to cause it to start the cummins rattle? Due to the fact that the camshaft/IP marks line up according to the book but the harmonic balancer mark is approx one inch before the mark when the cam shaft and IP are lined up, also the balancer shaft marks are lined up. I just want to see or hear if anyone else has seen a timing belt jump or a harmonic balancer outer shell slip. The IP and camshaft are lined up as per the manual so I know they IP is firing correctly, to go with that if the injectors are weak it will cause the cummins rattle also? So in the end has anyone seen the harmonic balancer marks not in the right place? If I adjust the belt I don't want pistons impacting the valves. As I said it was smooth and non rattling then after a good drive it started to do the cummins rattle. Can a belt slip? (without engine damage) Can a harmonic outer shell slip?

Kelly

[jessef]

Hi Kelly

timing belt skipping does happen
pull the cover, TDC and line up the marks to be certain. Then adjust the timing. If all is bang on, you should be good on your way.

What's the make/part# on the belt? I've heard of aftermarket belts skipping.

[92pajero]

I got all my parts from steven at assiniboine in BC Cool I thought the belt might have slipped but not enough for engine damage, it is just a little weird since the cam and IP still line up so its just the crankshaft that to seem to have jumped. When working on other JDM diesels have you come across the harmonic mark to be "off"? It was a few hills and I did have a small oil leak at the front of the engine that I thought I had taken care of and cleaned, so a lil oil might have helped slippage. This would also explain my hard start issue also. Thanks for the input. FEEL FREE to keep inputting, I will start tear down tomorrow morning to ensure all is good and I will pull glow plugs and turn by hand to make sure that there will be no impacting of valves and pistons. Thanks once again

[Luna-Sea]

Hey,
I am wondering if you might have the wrong timing belt,
There are two different ones for the 4dD56,
Cant remember when the switch was, Oct.93?
But I wonder if sometimes the engine has been swapped out or whatnot, making someone grab the wrong one.
They have a different number of teeth on the belt I believe.
anyone?
Farsang?
Djack?
Just an possibility to eliminate.
It is my understanding the motor will still run,
Just crappilly.

Good Luck!

[vixentd]

Could the crankshaft sprocket become worn on the keyway?

[strada-caster]

Hey,
I am wondering if you might have the wrong timing belt,
There are two different ones for the 4dD56,
Cant remember when the switch was, Oct.93?
But I wonder if sometimes the engine has been swapped out or whatnot, making someone grab the wrong one.
They have a different number of teeth on the belt I believe.
anyone?
Farsang?
Djack?
Just an possibility to eliminate.
It is my understanding the motor will still run,
Just crappilly.

Good Luck!

Yes they have a different number of teeth. I remember that when I did my timing belt. one of the importers would be able to confirm the number of teeth and maybe engine serial number when the switch happpened.

[92pajero]

changed the belt over 45000 km ago and she is due again in 55000. She was running normally when I began my drive, then I noticed a bit more smoke than usual on the road going up hills, and when passing other vehicles. When I pulled into the city i noticed a little more cummins rattle, I started givin her through a bit of traffic and then I noticed the cummins rattle more. Let her cool down and shut her down. Fired her up 30 minutes later and still rattling Pinging that diesel detonation sound not like she was a few hrs before. Like I said i lashed the valves the next day and noticed the harmonic was not lined up but the cam and IP were. So here I go going to start taking her down and see what is up. I will keep you guys posted. If its not the timing then I am led to believe my injectors are weak and opening too soon, I will let everyone know whats going on I will do a play by play.

[92pajero]

oh yeah old trick i learned "do not throw out old parts unless new parts match" ie count threads and teeth lol the belt i put in last year was the same tooth count i pulled out

[92pajero]

let the fun begin, will take pics and keep the people of delica updated.

[Manitoba deli]

The harmonic balancers have been known to "separate" causing the outer portion to spin slightly on the inner portion. When this happens, the timing marks on the balancer won't line up with the others. Best to pull the balancer off and look at the marks on the timing belt pulley itself. The running condition sounds like a weak or dirty injector, but again that's just a guess from behind a keyboard. Definitely verify timing marks, then go from there.

Jason

[92pajero]

Time check... Got her torn down and possibly found the culprit, I had some issue about a month ago when I noticed some noise, and a massive oil leak. I took her apart in a parking lot where she dumped her guts so moving it was not an option. Once inside i found the balancer shaft seal had blown. After fixing the problem, a rouge washer strayed behind the timing belt cover awaiting it's prime opportunity to strike with vengeance, this is what I just found today. He struck with a mighty blow to the idler pulley and crank shaft gear, possible dislodging the timing; but the ninja Parjero fought valiantly, and was slightly wounded. So now after another cup of coffee and first aid, aka resetting timing, I will keep you posted.

[92pajero]

done how the hell does an engine retard itself? answer rogue washer behind timing cover now it sounds like a mitsu again and back to feul effeciency

[jessef]

good. no one likes a retarded JDM !