Welcome to the "Last Word Café".

[thedjjack]

Dealers Associations Needs an ETHICS BOARD....

[delicat]

Sorry, I couldn't resist!
You need to read past 1/2 the first page for entertainment value...

http://www.delica.ca/forum/feedback-on- ... a-605.html

[thedjjack]

Sorry, I couldn't resist!
You need to read past 1/2 the first page for entertainment value...

http://www.delica.ca/forum/feedback-on- ... a-605.html

Green1 missed a post in his "deletion - exit"

[jessef]

Dealers Associations Needs an ETHICS BOARD....

Dealing face to face with a salesperson, no other industry that I know of takes advantage of hard working people's money like they do in auto sales, used or new.

Take the ethics aside, there is a law that can help someone who bought a vehicle from a used car dealer and got shafted.

Sale of Goods Act

Dealers that realize what this act entails will not be forthcoming is you ask them about it.

Example: Chassis rust that posed a safety hazard by our road standards. By this definition, that person can use the Sale of Goods Act to take the dealer to court using this law.

There are more options out there for consumers as well but are not actively published or shown in media due to the large $ influence CADA has over them. The best defense an uninformed individual has is documentation, the net and people like us.

[elbosque]

Just though I would correct a bit of mis-information there about the number of vehicles any one person can sell before they are considered a defacto dealer. This is right from the Act. Not a PDF which is not a legal document. Also, you will note that the "information" PDF that was earlier quoted in fact got the number wrong. It isn't up to 5 vehicles. The legal definition clearly is under 5 vehicles. I think I did pass Math 9 when we did the "greater than" and "less than".

http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws ... #section35

"salesperson" means

(a) an individual, other than a motor dealer, who, on behalf of a motor dealer and for or in the expectation of a fee, gain or reward,

(i) solicits, negotiates or arranges for the sale of a motor vehicle to a person, or

(ii) in any way participates in the soliciting, negotiating or arranging for the sale of a motor vehicle to a person, or

(b) an individual who is a motor dealer and who

(i) solicits, negotiates or arranges for the sale of a motor vehicle to a person, or

(ii) in any way participates in the soliciting, negotiating or arranging for the sale of a motor vehicle to a person.

(2) Without limiting the definition of "motor dealer", a person who carries on the activities described in paragraphs (a) to (c) of that definition in respect of 5 or more motor vehicles within a 12 month period is, subject to an exemption by regulation, deemed to be a motor dealer.

[FalcoColumbarius]

To start with, which PDF are you referring to?
Secondly, if e-mails, tweets, facebook entries, photocopies, faxes, &c., are admissible as evidence in a court of law, then why not a PDF?
If someone writes a law on a paper napkin with a pencil ~ is it not still a law?

I think the items you linked to are relevant points, in particular: #3:

• 3 (1) A person must not carry on business as a motor dealer
  
  (a) unless the person
  
  (i) is registered,
  
  (ii) has provided the prescribed security satisfactory to the registrar,
  
  (iii) has paid the prescribed annual renewal fee,
  
  (iv) maintains motor vehicle repair facilities or files with the registrar a service contract providing for motor vehicle repair facilities satisfactory to the registrar,
  
  (v) maintains a sign on the business premises identifying the registrant and the premises in the prescribed manner, and
  
  (vi) maintains business premises that are, in the opinion of the registrar, sufficient for the purpose of displaying motor vehicles, and
  
  (b) other than in the person's registered name or elsewhere than at or from the person's business premises.
  
  (2) Except as provided in section 13, a person must not advertise or in any way indicate that he or she is registered or licensed under this Act.
  (Motor Dealer Act)

However, when is someone deemed a "Motor Dealer"?
What denotes a motor dealer? Selling a car? Buying to sell at a profit? Which model do we define profit with? Sweat equity? Interest? Supply and demand?

Falco.
_________________________________________

• "motor dealer" means a person who, in the course of business,
  
  (a) engages in the sale, exchange or other disposition of a motor vehicle, whether for that person's own account or for the account of another person, to another person for purposes that are primarily personal, family or household,
  
  (b) holds himself, herself or itself out as engaging in the disposition of motor vehicles under paragraph (a), or
  
  (c) solicits, offers, advertises or promotes with respect to the disposition of motor vehicles under paragraph (a),
  
  but does not include a person exempted by regulation or an individual referred to in paragraph (a) of the definition of "salesperson";
  (Motor Dealer Act)

[jessef]

Ask a question, answer the question. Ask a question, answer the question. Are you having conversations with yourself Falco?

[elbosque]

I see a lot of scare tactics in this thread with the intent to make people believe they cannot legally import a vehicle, use it for some time and then sell it when they want or need to. I have seen business owners do the same for those of us who import our own parts. In my mind, the law is clear. If you sell 4 or less vehicles within a 12 month period (not the calendar year) you have no worries. If you sell 5 or more vehicles you could have someone file a complaint against you and be charged. Although, I think Crown prosecutors have more important things to do than go after a few car collector enthusiasts. Think of all the car collections of 5 or more vehicles that are sold off every year from elderly owners or estates. How about businesses that sell off their fleets of vehicles?

Where things in the law might be a bit fuzzy is regarding a vehicle imported into Canada but not yet registered in any jurisdiction in Canada. The vehicle(s) being sold would have no registry anywhere other than with customs. The feds don't care what you do with it as long as they have their money. A vehicle like this could be sold numerous numerous times before it gets registered in any jurisdiction. I could see a "curber" slipping un-dectected if they went about it quietly. I know from experience that ICBC does not care how many times its ownership changed as long as you can prove the line of ownership with bills of sale from its last registration in the country of export.

I am not going to debate with Falco or anyone else about how many vehicles I can sell and buy. I got better things to do with my time. If you have questions or concerns, you can always ask the appropriate authorities in writing or ask independent legal council for advice. Legal assertions or information posted on internet forums should always be considered suspect (including mine) until you can verify it is correct.

The drama in this thread has been mildly entertaining but I am not into soaps. Have a good day all and keep the shiny side UP.

[thedjjack]

I see a lot of scare tactics in this thread ......... Have a good day all and keep the shiny side UP.

[jessef]

I am not going to debate with Falco or anyone else about how many vehicles I can sell and buy.

Being one of the founding members of the IVOAC National Committee, your post has more merit in my eyes than Falco's Q&A or Rising Sun that touts the dealerships fighting for it's customers. Scare tactics don't appear to work in their favor. Thanks for the fresh perspective.

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

I am not going to debate with Falco or anyone else about how many vehicles I can sell and buy.

Being one of the founding members of the IVOAC National Committee, your post has more merit in my eyes than Falco's Q&A or Rising Sun that touts the dealerships fighting for it's customers. Scare tactics don't appear to work in their favor. Thanks for the fresh perspective.

How many times have you edited your previous posts you made already in this forum?
I really don't know what I respond to.
Think once again before punching “enter key”.

dealing with Mark as Falco will not acknowledge or respond
Last edited by jfarsang on Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:58 pm, edited 11 times in total.

sometimes you gotta take a deep breath before pressing enter. then you only have to do it once.

If you see no address, no phone number in seller's website while they are selling jdm cars here in BC, you may suspect they are curbers.
More curber's business tactics will be followed later.

Steven

[kb&2dogs]

...and I'm clean out of popcorn!!

[tonydca]

Here ya go!

[jessef]

However, when is someone deemed a "Motor Dealer"?
What denotes a motor dealer? Selling a car? Buying to sell at a profit? Which model do we define profit with? Sweat equity? Interest? Supply and demand?

We must impress upon the public the value in doing business only with licensed dealers and salespeople, and the old adage that if something appears to be too good to be true, there is likely a very good reason.

Buying a vehicle from a private person is too good to be true. As yes.. the scare tactics. One site admin and one dealer shaking hands. May as well come out of the closet.

[FalcoColumbarius]

..........I am not going to debate with Falco or anyone else about how many vehicles I can sell and buy. I got better things to do with my time. If you have questions or concerns, you can always ask the appropriate authorities in writing or ask independent legal council for advice. Legal assertions or information posted on internet forums should always be considered suspect (including mine) until you can verify it is correct.

The drama in this thread has been mildly entertaining but I am not into soaps. Have a good day all and keep the shiny side UP.

Then....... why did you join in the discussion?

I see a lot of scare tactics in this thread with the intent to make people believe they cannot legally import a vehicle, use it for some time and then sell it when they want or need to.

Regarding "scare tactics" ~ I have not, nor do I take any stand in this. Now I'm not sure if this particular comment is directed toward the administration, but if it is.... Then why are there forums on this site dedicated to importing one's own vehicle? If we were 'shaking hands with the devil' ~ would there be a Dealer Feedback forum where members could criticise as well as praise particular business ethics?

In fact, I believe this all started when I made an observation regarding a prolific member, who wants to group and confine vendors into one area of the forum ~ yet he also displays the actions of a vendor. My question was: 'Does this not by definition also make him a vendor? So would this not theoretically confine him to the same prospective status as other vendors?' That's all, just an observation.

Legal assertions or information posted on internet forums should always be considered suspect (including mine) until you can verify it is correct.

I fully and unequivocally concur with this statement. That is a very good point you bring up, Elbosque. This is why we have posted links to the Constitution Of Canada, Transport Canada, Motor Vehicle Act, Motor Dealer Act, &c., &c..

Falco.