Hello...help me convince the wife!!

[jaggedfish]

I echo what Jfarsang says. Having owned both an L300 and currently own an L400 short wheel base, I love these buses and have never had trouble accessing parts. I was a little concerned when I moved to Calgary a year ago but there are reliable dealers who will get you parts relatively quickly if you need them.

There is still a big place in my heart for my L300 but I have to say I LOVE my L400. Yes, the 400 SWB is smaller inside (behind the seats) by about a foot because the seating is much further back than the 300 but that is not a big deal for me. More important offroad is the approach angle and departure angle of the SWB versus the long wheelbase. Departure angle is sacrificed a bit on the long version but a lift can help that. Approach angle for L400s is much improved for the 400 over the 300. Another important improvement is the L400 is very 'clean' underneath... the L300 transfer case hangs low and can be bottomed out. The L400 has everything tucked up nice and clean... if you bottom out, you bottom everything out but you would pretty much be sitting on the frame at that point.

The greatest difference though is the power on the highway. The L300 is sluggish on big hills and you have to take care not to heat up the engine too much - let the van tell you how fast you can go - could frustrate the wife on road trips - trust me on that . The L400 powers up long steep hills with ease and is comfortable on long roadys. Lots of legroom for tall people - more than L300s.

I have no qualms about taking my bus offroad into the bush. Can things break? Sure! But... they can break on any vehicle and you would be equally stuck out there - no difference. No parts stores in the bush. Always carry tools and recovery gear and travel with a buddy vehicle in case you get in a pinch.

My wife really loves my L400 - and she isn't an easy person to sway. It has enough 'luxury' to satisfy the feminine need and enough 'utility' to satisfy the masculine need. Good luck in your search!
Cheers!
Ian

[MardyDelica]

hi,
aprt for L400 is available now
so no need to worry about parts for this
you can call me anytime if need help, about the parts for this Delica
cheers;
Mardy

[konadog]

At 6'5" I have no leg room issues in my 300.
And personally, I think the "under-powered" thing is generally way over stated. So 300's are slower going up hills - like VW buses. I've never felt like my 300 is lacking in power at all - it is what it is.
Like Jesse said, it's a matter of personal preference. Test drive both and get the one that tickles yer fancy.

[zu!]

Guys...I will have to try and find out what it means by "lack of power". I was told the old mercs had a serious lack of power...and for the most part, people are right! However, like most diesels of the genre, mine has only 79 hp on tap, to push a 3,000 lb plus vehicle. It does pretty well with the 125ft/lb torque...most of which is available at under 2500 RPMs. I mean, compared to those numbers, how bad can a L300 be?

One thing I've found though, is that if I REALLY want to go (like when some turdo with a loud exhaust is sitting on my tail right after the light turns green) alls I gotta do is STOMP on the pedal and watch him disappear in a cloud of black soot.

Generally though, I'm a sedate driver...rarely going over 80kmh. It just takes some time to get to that 120kmh.

Anyone in the general area want to give me (more importantly, the wife) a whirl in your delica?

[nxski]

The numbers for the L300's are about the same as your Merc's. I would just go to a dealer and ask them to take out a vehicle. Anyone who's selling should let you go for a test drive.

[TardisDeli]

As a woman owner and driver of almost 4 years, I prefer the L300 (and I have driven several L400's when testing problems for the owners).

L300 is much easier to park as it does not have the long bonnet/hood in the front to obstruct vision (you see the L400 have little metal antennas on the front corners so you can see where your corners would be -- if you could only see the L400 corners). L300 has a fantastically small turning radius, I can just turn around in most streets thus avoiding traffic jams. L300 is way more bomb-proof as very few electronics, versus the L400 has a gazillion electronic relays for everything. What often discourages city dwellers about the L300 is the huge tires and lift kits, if you just run it on smaller car size tires then it is easy to get in and out of. You could keep a spare set of rugged BFG AT 30 inch tires on used rims ready to put on for your camping trips. My L300 is often admired by other women, because it is designed for comfort: always has the porta-potty inside ready to use (just pull the curtains if stuck in traffic jam), and especially the microwave with basket atop of snacks and hot drinks ready to appease cranky passengers, and the inverter also powers the electric blanket and hotpack for snuggling into or putting over cold knees while driving. The drivers seat on the L300 is more sensible for 2 different sized drivers, it does not need adjusting (Jay is 6'3 I am 5'6) and the seating position is like an office chair so you see over the steering wheel, versus the L400 is more like a sports car seat and is very laid back so you must adjust seat etc for each driver. Ensure your van has shoulder straps fitted in the back suitable for kids sizes, some older ones only had lap belts (aahhh the good old days when we could sit in the back of an open pickup truck, and seatbelts and shoulder belts were mere decoration). The big difference for L400 is faster on takeoff and faster up hills, but I just enjoy the relaxed drive and don't get speeding tickets, and enjoy a nice hot cup of tea. If you're in Burnaby area, we're just off freeway Gaglardi exit 37, welcome to go for a spin. Cheers, christine.

[zu!]

As a woman owner and driver of almost 4 years, I prefer the L300 (and I have driven several L400's when testing problems for the owners).

L300 is much easier to park as it does not have the long bonnet/hood in the front to obstruct vision (you see the L400 have little metal antennas on the front corners so you can see where your corners would be -- if you could only see the L400 corners). L300 has a fantastically small turning radius, I can just turn around in most streets thus avoiding traffic jams. L300 is way more bomb-proof as very few electronics, versus the L400 has a gazillion electronic relays for everything. What often discourages city dwellers about the L300 is the huge tires and lift kits, if you just run it on smaller car size tires then it is easy to get in and out of. You could keep a spare set of rugged BFG AT 30 inch tires on used rims ready to put on for your camping trips. My L300 is often admired by other women, because it is designed for comfort: always has the porta-potty inside ready to use (just pull the curtains if stuck in traffic jam), and especially the microwave with basket atop of snacks and hot drinks ready to appease cranky passengers, and the inverter also powers the electric blanket and hotpack for snuggling into or putting over cold knees while driving. The drivers seat on the L300 is more sensible for 2 different sized drivers, it does not need adjusting (Jay is 6'3 I am 5'6) and the seating position is like an office chair so you see over the steering wheel, versus the L400 is more like a sports car seat and is very laid back so you must adjust seat etc for each driver. Ensure your van has shoulder straps fitted in the back suitable for kids sizes, some older ones only had lap belts (aahhh the good old days when we could sit in the back of an open pickup truck, and seatbelts and shoulder belts were mere decoration). The big difference for L400 is faster on takeoff and faster up hills, but I just enjoy the relaxed drive and don't get speeding tickets, and enjoy a nice hot cup of tea. If you're in Burnaby area, we're just off freeway Gaglardi exit 37, welcome to go for a spin. Cheers, christine.

Gosh thanks for your post Christine! Your comments are exactly what I need to show my wife! The fact that you call it by the proper name (bonnet) is a plus too.

The seatbelt thing, yeah, I agree with you totally there. I don't really think shoulder belts are all that necessary. More necessary is careful driving!! My kids love sitting in our 74 bus with lap belts only. Like the Man who wrote THE BOOK said: If everyone drove like they were strapped to the front of their vehicles, there would be no accidents.

Thanks again, we'll definitely take you up on your offer!

[thedjjack]

If you get one with the middle bench with lap belts the seat back can be flipped so the kids face the back of the van and has head constants.

With rear facing, head rests and lap belts the kids will be forced into the seat in an accident and no boaster seats needed with lap belts.

Mine is a 1989 L300 with this seat up (when I have the middle seat in).

[nxski]

That's a bit of a catch 22. In a frontal impact rear facing is good in a rear end forward facing is best. It depends on if you trust yourself or other drivers more. Personally I just like rear facing safety aside because it feels like a living room setting.

[thedjjack]

most major accidents will be forward facing due to fact the that is the direction of momentum. Forward facing is always safer just a really hard to drive facing that way.

Mercedes non-Turbo OM617 (5cylinder) or Turbo OM616 (4 cylinder) about the power of the L300. The OM617 Turbo makes more power (My 1982 300SD climbed the "Coke" after the snowshed at 70mph! I love that OM617 one of the best diesel engines ever built, I over heated mine so bad the pistons got to big for the cylinders and it stopped....cooled it down and ran like new. No aluminum head diesel will survive that abuse (I thought I would have cracked a few piston rings but didn't).

[jessef]

One more thing to add to your quest for a Delica.

The amount of rolled (braking too hard while corning, etc...) L300's are plentiful in BC. This is coming from a friend's wife ICBC agent who owns a Toyota Hiace (RHD) so I'm trusting my source.

The front crash/impact zone on an L300 is scary and you may cherish your feet/legs once you see what I mean.

Something people may not be separating is the difference between city/highway and slow/handling road manners.

When you compare the road manners of both vehicles, the L400 is a safer vehicle from a crash/accident perspective. Of course there are many variables, but for passenger/driver safety, the L400 has a better impact zone spread at the front/rear and sides.

When you compare the maneuverability of both vehicles in tight areas such as parking lots, parallel parking, turning radius, etc... the L300 is the clearly the winner with a shorter wheelbase and tight turning radius.

Some L400's come with airbags and ABS which can also contribute to a safer vehicle depending on your perspective.

With everything said, it comes down to two things.

1. Driver experience. Whatever you drive (L300 or L400), if you are an alert and skilled driver, you can avoid situations that put others at risk.

2. 3rd party driver. Whatever you drive, nothing can prevent certain situations that are out of your control such as a speeding vehicle hitting your vehicle while you are at a standstill, etc... in which case the vehicle you are in will determine the outcome of it's occupants inside in which case I prefer the L400 for those reasons and below.

Like I said before, I personally prefer my previous L300 as a Delica as a camping vehicle for just me and my lady.

When it comes to my family/nieces, I feel much more comfortable with them in an L400 than in an L300 if they were to be involved in any form of car accident. *knock on wood*

This is my personal opinion and you will ALWAYS have people that push L300's only and people that push L400's only for their own reasons.

My reasons stem from experience owning and driving both (in all flavours) over a few years, so it is direct and intimate with both L300 and L400's.

[thedjjack]

I just re-read you original post.

For everyday use, pulling fire wood, and occasional hunting trip I would go with the L400.

Honestly your mechanic just wants to order parts from his suppliers and fix things. His suppliers do not carry the parts (OK they do, just they cannot be bothered to update the computers to have the Delica listings).

They are going to be slightly less reliable then the Mercedes due to having all the extra parts that a 4x4 needs such as drive shafts, transfercase, u-joints, CVs etc... But Mercedes such off road (I tried to 4x4 my 300SD once).

I would try to stay away from anitlock brakes (suck in loose materials and peer reviewed literature shows no reduction in accidents) and airbags (mostly in cars to sell more airbags and they kill me as I sit close to the steering wheel).

Maybe it is harder to park? but is similar to the mini van you previously owned.

[zu!]

Thanks for you unbiased views on the both types jfarsang. Its always good to go into a situation with hindsight! How about this comment:

The amount of rolled (braking too hard while corning, etc...) L300's are plentiful in BC. This is coming from a friend's wife ICBC agent who owns a Toyota Hiace (RHD) so I'm trusting my source.
The front crash/impact zone on an L300 is scary and you may cherish your feet/legs once you see what I mean.

I've kinda suspected this is one thing about the L300. I dunno...just something about the shape and height. Then again, it is an off-road vehicle. So, it should have better stability than most. Unless maybe lift kits have altered its engineered centre of gravity? Braking at all whilst cornering is a no-no for me and just indicates entering a corner faster than one intended.

As for the crash-zone in front..well, its much like our old VW busses eh. I will take it under advisement.

thedjjack, thanks for the power-comparison. If the L300 is comparable to a normally aspirated 617, then boy, its a SLOW starter! :shock:Once up to speed though, it should be the same as the turbo version. I drive the 617 turbo and the power is just nice for me. I have no doubt that the SD can do the speeds you speak of uphill...as you discovered though, it will not be good for the engine. The L300 engine head, being Aluminium will not survive.

I think you're right about the parts and my mechanic. Then again, it could also be he has knowledge of the rollovers that jfarsang writes about. He's really good friends with ICBC guys. Then again, as Mardy says, he's got all the parts that are needed to maintain these vehicles, so I feel that that is no longer a worry for me. I too have no use for ABS, airbags and all the extra doo-dads that just add to the cost of vehicular maintenance.

As for hard to park...well, my wife actually parks better (and quicker) than I do. Yes, it takes a big man to say that, but then again, we grew up in KL. If you can't drive and park there, you will not last long on those mean streets.

[nxski]

I admit I'm biased and like the l300's more but I agree with the dj jacks statement, for hauling firewood you might be better with the 400.

As for rolling I like to push my vehicles to the limit to see what they're capable of. I've played around a lot in the snow with mine and it was fantastic but if you are sliding it and hit a dry spot it's a bit scary, in the wet I've slid it and never felt even close to rolling. In the dry I figured it would roll before sliding so I always judged whether my cornering speed was too fast by how much the body rolled, that is until I took a corner coming off the freeway at 90km/hr and did a complete controlled drift around it. Again it never felt as if it would roll. That being said it also comes down to the tires you use and I've yet to push it since installing Jesse's 2" lift.

[jessef]

If you install a small 1-2" lift in an L300 with the proper shocks, you are getting a much more stiffer side to side ride than a stock L300 which gives you better handling on the road and at highway speeds.

If you drive an L300 that has the correct tension on the torsion bars, good leaf springs in the rear and good shocks it should not have a lot of side to side body roll.

99% of L300's coming from Japan have tired old shocks, torsion bars and leaf springs. This leads to a very sketchy and hard to handle short wheel base vehicle at high speeds.

This is the main cause in addition to road conditions/driver input that causes roll overs with L300's.

Driving slow & easy will ease the bobbing and rolling.

The old VW van's (I've owned a few in my day) have a lower centre of gravity and wider stance compared to an L300, as well as the engine in the rear so you don't have the side to side and back to front bobbing while driving/braking.

No matter what, a sudden turn and/or brake at high speeds (over 70km/hr) can cause an L300 to roll. It's been shown unfortunately in various dry/wet/snow conditions and on different roads.

The L400 does not exhibit this behaviour as it has a longer wheelbase and the weight it more evenly distributed through the platform of the vehicle.

Something to consider if you do a lot of highway driving or have the wife driving as well.

My lady has white knuckles every time she drove our L300 on the highway as opposed to the L400 which was a pleasant driving experience for her.

More food for thought.