Cold Starting Problem

[Ender-Beeshi]

Hi Folks,

First off, it's not that cold . . . about -7C.

I've had the block heater going for about 2 hours. I turn the ignition and let the glow plugs (hopefully) heat for about 20 seconds before I start cranking. The starter cranks but the engine won't fire. Rinse, repeat. No firing.

Clearly, the glow plugs are greatly diminished and should be replaced but, what to do in the meantime to get the beast going?

Also, anyone know how the glow plugs work when starting. Does it make sense to let the glow plugs heat up for a longer period of time before trying to crank?

Finally, how worried should i be as I repeat the process.

Thanks in advance for helping this Space Gear newbie.

And. . . happy New Year to y'all.

[lopar]

First off, assuming that you have an L400? ....... and welcome and all that.

Also, anyone know how the glow plugs work when starting. Does it make sense to let the glow plugs heat up for a longer period of time before trying to crank?

At that temp, the glow plugs will come on for 7 ish seconds then turn off...... waiting will only have them cool down, you can however cycle the key on/off and get another 7 or so seconds.... this will definitely not hurt them as they will come back on after starting for another 2minutes +. You can tell they are coming on or off from the heavy relay clicking sound..... located just behind the fuel filter, L/H side.

[Ender-Beeshi]

thanks lopar, very helpfully information.

yup indeed, it is the L400. Funny, I was previously cycling the plugs on and off for a cold start and my mechanic told me not to. He suggested just leaving them on for 20 seconds and then cranking but he's not really a Deli-Mechanic.

[mararmeisto]

thanks lopar, very helpfully information.

yup indeed, it is the L400. Funny, I was previously cycling the plugs on and off for a cold start and my mechanic told me not to. He suggested just leaving them on for 20 seconds and then cranking but he's not really a Deli-Mechanic.

Multiple cycles of on & off and back on will definitely burn out your glow plugs (the sooty plugs are probably already dead). The timing of the cycle is based on the water coolant temperature sensor, and it will fire the plugs for about 8 seconds. After starting, the plugs will cycle on and off rapidly for a few moments. I can't really say how long because it seems Mitsubishi puts a different glow controller in each of these vehicles (L300, L400, Pajero and different ones as the years go by, too) - they all seem to start off the cycle roughly the same, but the finish is different for each vehicle.

A simple way to test your plugs is to pull them out of the block and with two large gauged wires touch the body and the post to the terminals of a battery (use a set of pliers to hold the wire to the body and touch that one to negative). If after a few seconds the plug has not got hot, it's dead. Note: 12 vdc is not enough to overcome the insulating properties of your skin, as long as your hands are dry. This is why you can touch both terminals of a 9 vdc battery with your hand and feel nothing, but touch it to your tongue... well, you feel that.

[tonydca]

thanks lopar, very helpfully information.

yup indeed, it is the L400. Funny, I was previously cycling the plugs on and off for a cold start and my mechanic told me not to. He suggested just leaving them on for 20 seconds and then cranking but he's not really a Deli-Mechanic.

Multiple cycles of on & off and back on will definitely burn out your glow plugs (the sooty plugs are probably already dead). The timing of the cycle is based on the water coolant temperature sensor, and it will fire the plugs for about 8 seconds. After starting, the plugs will cycle on and off rapidly for a few moments. I can't really say how long because it seems Mitsubishi puts a different glow controller in each of these vehicles (L300, L400, Pajero and different ones as the years go by, too) - they all seem to start off the cycle roughly the same, but the finish is different for each vehicle.

A simple way to test your plugs is to pull them out of the block and with two large gauged wires touch the body and the post to the terminals of a battery (use a set of pliers to hold the wire to the body and touch that one to negative). If after a few seconds the plug has not got hot, it's dead. Note: 12 vdc is not enough to overcome the insulating properties of your skin, as long as your hands are dry. This is why you can touch both terminals of a 9 vdc battery with your hand and feel nothing, but touch it to your tongue... well, you feel that.

OP, when the beast starts up from cold, the glow plugs turning on and off is accompanied by a loud "click" from the big ol' relay under the hood on the extreme left (passenger's) side.

Are you hearing any such underhood clicks when you cycle the key?

[ealanm]

Clearly, the glow plugs are greatly diminished and should be replaced but, what to do in the meantime to get the beast going?

As a short-term solution, I've used ether on other diesels with success (though not on a Delica).

[Ender-Beeshi]

i typically hear the first click about 7 seconds after starting. the second click is typically several minutes later after the vehicle is running.

[FalcoColumbarius]

My glow plugs click typically after three seconds in the Summertime and as long as five seconds during the Winter, though usually more like four seconds. I would consider your batteries. Low amperage and it takes longer to heat those puppies up. This could be as simple as dirty connexions at the terminals (often the case) or old batteries that have lost their juice, of which Winter is very good at demonstrating. Have you checked the water level in them?

Having said this I must point out that my engine is the 4D56T so the behaviour of the respective glow plugs maybe different.

Falco.

[lopar]

Multiple cycles of on & off and back on will definitely burn out your glow plugs

after start up the glow plugs run for 2-3 min, from what I have seen and heard from people........ so at about 7 sec each time you cycle it, yes you could eventually burn them out, but you might be there for a while, math is just too much for me

........ however, the real issue is that you should not have to cycle them more than once to begin with. As mentioned already, and more in depth in other posts, verify the glow plugs are not dead (replace), verify your relay is working, then verify your voltage through the circuit. Should have about 12V before/at the glow plugs, anything less and you may just have corrosion problems on some of the major wires. Also most people forget to check for voltage at the block (after the glow plugs), should be around 0V, if you are showing any voltage, probably corrosion between block and battery negative.

Good luck!

[mac_stang]

every diesel owner should have a can of "quick start"(ether) sitting next to their additive(on board)
This has been a long time staple in the diesel world and i have had to use it about 30 times this year, fall 2010-present and expect
to use it a few more times. Ive used "quick start" in every diesel ive owned-more than once too!
If there are any questions about the proper use feel free to pm me.

Brad.

[Mr. Flibble]

every diesel owner should have a can of "quick start"(ether) sitting next to their additive(on board)
This has been a long time staple in the diesel world and i have had to use it about 30 times this year, fall 2010-present and expect
to use it a few more times. Ive used "quick start" in every diesel ive owned-more than once too!
If there are any questions about the proper use feel free to pm me.

Brad.

There is a risk of blowing up your engine with Ether. Ether is great for Diesels without glowplugs, but can destroy an engine with them. I would stick with WD-40 which won't ignite from the glowplugs.

[tonydca]

every diesel owner should have a can of "quick start"(ether) sitting next to their additive(on board)
This has been a long time staple in the diesel world and i have had to use it about 30 times this year, fall 2010-present and expect
to use it a few more times. Ive used "quick start" in every diesel ive owned-more than once too!
If there are any questions about the proper use feel free to pm me.

Brad.

Assuming you're out here on the Wet Coast, if the van's glow plug/starting system is all working properly, you shouldn't need anything else.

I had crappy lumpy chunky starts with bad plugs, but now that everything is dialled in, it starts first crank every time, including during that -12degC snap we had a while back.

'Course, those hardy prarie folks might need a little extra...

[mrdueck]

I couldn't believe it! Yesterday I forgot to plug in the l400 (I believe I had a brain fart), temp went to -35C and windchill -45C (I know the motor doesn't care about that part). My wife needed the vehicle and I was leaving to work on my bike when I noticed this. I plugged it in but she was leaving in 15 minutes! I told her to cycle the plugs 2x's and go for it. Talked to her later in the day and she said "it started no problem, it just made some squeeking noises but that is it". Probably just the frozen belts. Hx of the vehicle is we just got in in Dec, new plugs & the Mardy tune-up, his high-end German Synthetic oil and2x new batteries doing just under 900CC each from Walmart I believe were all key in making this happen. It is so nice to know this diesel will do this if it has to.

[jaggedfish]

WOW!... MrDueck's firing in -35 is pretty good! I had to crank mine a bit at -26 (without block heater) but it fired within a few seconds and chugged a couple times then smoothed out at idle. With the block heater plugged in for some time, the van fired at -35 as if it were +35.

As far a the glow circuit is concerned, I understand the circuit functions much differently from the L300. I am new to L400's as well but from what I understood Mardy to say is that the glow plugs will cycle on when the ignition is turned on, then stay on for a couple minutes at least. You start the motor after the first click on an L400. The second click we are used to hearing on the 300's doesn't come until the motor has some heat in it. I find I can't hear the second click as the motor drowns it out.

That said, it stands to reason that cycling the glow plugs the way we do with the L300 will not achieve the same effect as they remain on anyway so you are not gaining anything by turning the ignition on and off several times. When it goes back down to the minus 20's, I will be trying to turn the ignition on (first click) and not crank the motor for a short bit to let the plugs get some heat in them, then crank and see if that makes any difference.

I am trying different ways to tackle the cold here in Calgary but find the van fires without hesitation at least down to -17 degrees. I don't have a plug-in at my office - arg.