Cracking~~engine~~ Heads

[sillymonkey]

Greetings,

I know I'm in Delica-Land but I'd love to gleen what wisdom I can from the forum regarding the engine head cracking issue I've heard Toyota vans may have~~

I'm about to buy a 1989 Toyota Townace, and talking to the mechanic whose going to do the pre-purchase inspection, ( he has experience w/ imports, apparently ) he said that a huge percentage of Toyota van's engine heads crack and that it's only a matter of time~~~ any feedback? Could it be so?

He also mentioned, this make/model may not be able to handle a long highway trip ( was planning to take it down south for a bit)...oh dear, is this accurate as well?

Grateful for any feedback/advice/reference~~~

[sasquatch-hunter]

All I heard is that the Land cruiser padro and Hilux with the 3.0 have head gasket problem.

[FalcoColumbarius]

I think you ought to get a second opinion.

There are people out there who are prejudice and think that because you are purchasing a vehicle from Japan is the reason for the economic situation that is in the world. Some of these people are professionals within the auto industry. When I went to my tyre supplier for tyres he said he couldn't help me because the the vehicle is foreign and he didn't have the specs. This guy had been in the business for many years, he could align a car with chalk and string but due to the foreign factor was unable to pick up a tape measure and walk over to the wheel and measure it. Besides, if he did he could just read the specs right off the existing tyre ~ I had been going to that guy for a few years, then he lays this trip on me.

I am not saying that your guy is wrong. Engines often have idiosyncrasies. I had a Plymouth Voyager with a Mitsubishi 2.6 4G engine, made for the North American market, that just loved to blow head gaskets.

Also, the engine made for the North American market is not necessarily the engine that goes into the same car for the Japanese market. The Honda CRX in Japan, from what I understand, is quite different from the Honda CRX in Canada.

Falco.

[psilosin]

There is so much confusion when it comes to Toyota diesel engines because people get the model numbers mixed up with the displacement so be careful. (ie. the 2L and 3L designation often get mixed up to equal displacement which is incorrect.)

Common Toyota Diesels on available JDM imports are:

2L - 2.4 Litre non-turbo - Hilux truck & other work trucks
2LT(E) - 2.4 Litre turbo - Hilux Surf, Prados, Some Hiace vans
3L - 2.8 Litre non-turbo - Hilux trucks, Hiace vans, and others
1KZT(E) - 3Litre turbo - 1994+ Hilux Surfs, Prados, some Hiace vans
2C-T - 2Litre turbo - Liteace & Townace Vans
2C - 2Litre non-turbo - Liteace and Townace trucks

The 2C-T [2litre] turbo diesel engine in the Townace vans can have some overheating problems that will lead to a cracked head. That said those vans are still quite plentiful in the Okanagan and I know a few owners personally who have had them since 2004/2005 with no issues. Just take it easy on the throttle when climbing hills and keep an eye on the temp guage. The factory Toyota temp gauge is pretty much useless so it is recommended to either modify it or get a quality aftermarket gauge.

The bad reputation for head cracking belongs to the 2LTE 2.4L turbo diesel in the Hilux Surfs & Prados which I (along with the nation of Australia) believe is also preventable but thats is a discussion for a different time and place :)

I like the Towance vans and teh features they offer, the main reason they stopped importing them in 'big' numbers is the headlamps are difficult to replace. Most of the ones you will see for sale have original JDM headlamps unless they are older than 1988 and use off teh shelf sealed beam rectangles.

[Todd64]

So no real issues with the Prado 3lt or LC 4.2lt six?

[jessef]

So no real issues with the Prado 3lt or LC 4.2lt six?

The 2LT is the one to avoid, unless the head has been replaced with the 3LT.

The Toyota's with the 3LT's have a good history being reliable.

The 4.2 1HZ engine found in 90% of Landcruisers on this planet is one of the best engines ever made. There are mining trucks with over 1 million km's on one 1HZ engine without a rebuild. That engine speaks volumes.

The 80 series landcruisers that have been coming in for years from Japan have the 1HZ Turbo charged engine. Same in line six with a turbo on it. The only issue is to replace the bottom end bearings with a fresh oil change once it lands. After that, they'll go forever, literally.

[sillymonkey]

Thank you so much for your replies-- quite helpful.

Psilosin, since you seem to be speaking for the entire nation of Australia ( on some issues:) and so are perhaps located there, you may not be able to answer this, so I ask the forum to indulge me once more:

Any recommendations on a Vancouver Island shop that could install an aftermarket temperature gauge that Psilosin mentioned?

many, many thanks~~

[psilosin]

The 2LT is the one to avoid, unless the head has been replaced with the 3LT.

The Toyota's with the 3LT's have a good history being reliable.

There is no such thing as a 3LT officially...people put a 3L head on 2LT(E) since it fits as it is supposed to have slightly better cooling passage design. However, if your head cracked and all you do is replace the head it will likely crack again...you need to fix what caused the problem in the first place. Thats one of the reasons these engines got such a bad reputation...people freaked when they spent $3000 to replace the head and then it cracks again 2 months later because the underlying issue remained.

Psilosin, since you seem to be speaking for the entire nation of Australia ( on some issues:) and so are perhaps located there

Sorry to be confusing, no I am not in Australia, there is just an excellent Hilux Surf forum out of Australia that deals heavily with the Toyota 2LTE and 1KZTE engines that is an excellent source of info for reliable hot weather performance (ie if their solutions to cooling issues work, then I'm sure they should work here).

A couple Townace related sites you might like to visit are:

http://www.townace.com/ - they sell a a kit that modifes the factory Toyota temp gauge...called the Mason Alarm.
http://www.toyotavanpeople.com/ - has a section for import vans. Some goods posts from a fellow that goes by Mr.Herbie that has had a Townace in the Okanagan for a number of years

Hope that helps.

[sillymonkey]

Thanks again all...

So it sounds like the cracking head issue brought forward by my mechanic extends beyond jaded shop-talk to a real concern ( sometimes hard to tell for a pleb like myself)... Psilosin you mentioned once head's crack, they'll just continue to crack until the underlying problem is fixed....is the underlying problem the 2L engine itself? Is the 2L engine inherently flawed, by Toyota's design and/or just for a van this size in a less urban-use context?

Also, apparently the current owners of the van I'm thinking of buying haven't done any maintenance of the cooling system in the past couple years, could this have an impact on the issue?

While I can continue to try to do research online myself ( thanks Psilosin for the townace link, a little too obvious for me to find I on my own I guess :) I do appreciate the quick feedback I'm receiving here, and am totally impressed by the depth of experience and wisdom.

Lastly, my dears, the aftermarket temperature gauge suggested by Psilosin seems to be sold out at it's website, any idea of a Vancouver Island shop who could put something like this in?

( My trip is scheduled in less than two weeks....maybe I should just buckle down and join the ranks of Delica owners as I see oceanfrontmama has a sweet van for sale:)

Ok, I think this will be my last tug on this thread-- don't want to overstay my welcome~~ thanks again everyone!!

[psilosin]

So it sounds like the cracking head issue brought forward by my mechanic extends beyond jaded shop-talk to a real concern ( sometimes hard to tell for a pleb like myself)... Psilosin you mentioned once head's crack, they'll just continue to crack until the underlying problem is fixed....is the underlying problem the 2L engine itself? Is the 2L engine inherently flawed, by Toyota's design and/or just for a van this size in a less urban-use context?

Just to be clear the Towance Van has the 2C-T engine not the 2L or 2LT(E) so it doesn't really matter for you, but yeah the 2LT(E) is a bit delicate and is coupled with a factory cooling system that is only adequete when operating at 100% for our driving conditions (ie highway 100kmh+ and long hills).

Also, apparently the current owners of the van I'm thinking of buying haven't done any maintenance of the cooling system in the past couple years, could this have an impact on the issue?

If they haven't been having any overheating issues then it sounds like the cooling system has been working alright. If its been a couple years I would suggest a coolant change though.

Lastly, my dears, the aftermarket temperature gauge suggested by Psilosin seem's to be sold out at it's website, any idea of a Vancouver Island shop who could put something like this in?

If you want to do the 'Mason Alarm' modification you would likely be on your own for that but ANY shop should be able to install an aftermarket temperature guage.

Ok, I think this will be my last tug on this thread-- don't want to overstay my welcome~~ thanks again everyone!!

Haha I have been on this forum for a couple years and am still without a Delica so I'm sure I have overstayed my welcome...but noone has kicked me out of here yet. Its a great bunch of people on here so its a good place to browse for vehicle info in general.

[pattonmaclean]

THE DIESEL MECHANICS INSTRUCTOR AT MY LOCAL COLLEGE (oops sorry) has warned me about Toyota four-cylinder diesels because of this problem. He's an RHD guy, who drives both a Pajero and a Nissan Safari.

[psilosin]

THATS VERY INTERESTING AND EXCITING (oops sorry) but if he is saying that ALL Toyota 4-cylinder diesels have issues then he is far from correct.

[Green1]

the lighter duty Toyota engines are famous for this problem (I think the 2.4L?) and many mechanics say it's not a question of "if" it will happen, but more a matter of "when"
The newer and heavier toyota engines (like the 3L) don't have the same issue.

[psilosin]

the lighter duty Toyota engines are famous for this problem (I think the 2.4L?) and many mechanics say it's not a question of "if" it will happen, but more a matter of "when"
The newer and heavier toyota engines (like the 3L) don't have the same issue.

The 2L (2.4L) and the 3L (2.8L) are both known to be very reliable (as is the 5L but I dought anyone has those around here yet). The 3L is not more heavy duty than any other of the L series engines at all, just slightly larger displacement. It is almost the same as the 2L in design, the 3L head is often used as a replacement on the 2LTE.

It is the light duty turbo diesels like the 2CT, 2LTII, 2LTE, 1KZT, 1KZTE that have head cracking issues...at least in Canada under our driving conditions. The earlier 2LT that was sold in Canada tended to drop pre-cups, not crack its head.

The heavier duty 4cylinder 3B and related series are rediculously reliable.