The "shaken" and "haircuts"

[Manitoba deli]

While odometer tampering does happen from time to time, it is not the general rule of thumb. It happens way more to North American vehicles sold here than to vehicles brought from overseas. If you think buying a vehicle with a shaken will protect you from this, it's about as good a form of defense as the ostrich exhibits. Odometers are not rolled back like they used to be, now they are simply disconnected and then reconnected for servicing and inspections. The terms shaken and haircuts are just being thrown out there to discourage individuals from importing themselves. This type of fear mongering is getting tiresome. Of course there are risks buying from auction, but if you think they are less because you are buying a vehicle that was bought privately with a shaken, well you better find some sand and join the ostrich. Does odometer tampering happen? Of course it does, but it is not common. Dealers in Japan will often buy vehicles before they are elligible for export and then sit on them until they can be exported. Buy low, sell high. Simple business plan. Just because a vehicle doesn't have a shaken, or wasn't registered for awhile doesn't mean it is in any worse shape than a vehicle with a current shaken. Sometimes they are in better shape. And just because the milage is low doesn't mean it was tampered with, Japan is full of both low and high milage vehicles. There are lots of Delicas with 300,000km on them. they are usualy company vehicles, or car poolers. There will always be people trying to scare you away from doing what they are doing. Don't let that deter you. There are those who will help you if you want to do it yourself, just ask.

[delicabits]

is it possible to disconnect to odometer and still have the speedometer registering speed? can't imagine people driving around without being able to tell how fast they are going. haircuts or rollbacks definitely were rife but it looks like they are trying to stamp it out with warning signs at auctions and registering the distance at each safety inspection or change of ownership. no matter how they try to regulate there will always be ways around it. in regards to shaken one member has mentioned about getting a certain document but can anyone else verify what he is talking about and produce a copy?

[Manitoba deli]

The shaken is basically a mechanical inspection that has the milage recorded on it. It is worth less than the paper it is printed on as you can get blank copies and fill them out yourself if you can write in Japanese or know someone who can. If you have ever seen the traffic in Japan, you will know that it would be very easy to tell how fast you are going, the same speed as the other one thousand cars on the road. I wouldn't waste your time with a shaken, it can be as much of a sales gimic as "having a mechanic look over the car" at auction.

Jason

[delicabits]

The shaken is basically a mechanical inspection that has the milage recorded on it. It is worth less than the paper it is printed on as you can get blank copies and fill them out yourself if you can write in Japanese or know someone who can. If you have ever seen the traffic in Japan, you will know that it would be very easy to tell how fast you are going, the same speed as the other one thousand cars on the road. I wouldn't waste your time with a shaken, it can be as much of a sales gimic as "having a mechanic look over the car" at auction.

Jason

the blank paper would be a work sheet or report from a garage or dealer and not the shaken certificate. the same speed as the others wouldn't be good if they were all speeding. what happens when no traffic around or on the expressways? do you think they would all drive the same speed on expressways?

[Manitoba deli]

No, if you look, you will find blank shaken reports. They are also like our provincial inspections, if you know the right people, money can buy you anything. And odometer tampering is not as common in Japan as some might have you believe. For those who do it, staying with the flow of traffic is very easy, the japanese don't drive like North Americans. That is why a 5000 pound l400 only has a 2.8l engine instead of a 5.4l

Jason

[EnviroImports.com]

Im not trying to instill fear in anyone, Im saying that there are options to buying an auction vehicle. and I am much happier to buy a van with the last couple shaken's with it than something with no information at all.
I dont have a car lot, I sell container shipping space and parts, so where is my motive to get you to buy one over the other? or to scare anyone . knowledge is power and options are good, the more someone knows about a major purchase the better, its not an easy thing to find a vehicle from a website , auction or not , send off Thousands of dollars and only get an email back saying you will get a van in a month or two. so the more people know the better.
if you buy parts from me and down the road wish to sell your vehicle, I have a web page that I use to help out my customers, Free of charge to post a van on my site, TO my customers.
That being said, what is your advice for buying from Japan, Clearly you have lived there or traveled to japan extensivly to be such a expert on how things are. perhaps you could educate the rest of us.

[delicabits]

No, if you look, you will find blank shaken reports. They are also like our provincial inspections, if you know the right people, money can buy you anything. And odometer tampering is not as common in Japan as some might have you believe. For those who do it, staying with the flow of traffic is very easy, the japanese don't drive like North Americans. That is why a 5000 pound l400 only has a 2.8l engine instead of a 5.4l
Jason

I think you will find that shaken reports and shaken certificates are two different things by the sounds of it. shaken certificate would only be issued by a govt department and are typed. shaken reports would be what you get from a garage etc and probably hand written etc.

Im not trying to instill fear in anyone, Im saying that there are options to buying an auction vehicle. and I am much happier to buy a van with the last couple shaken's with it than something with no information at all.
I dont have a car lot, I sell container shipping space and parts, so where is my motive to get you to buy one over the other? or to scare anyone . knowledge is power and options are good, the more someone knows about a major purchase the better, its not an easy thing to find a vehicle from a website , auction or not , send off Thousands of dollars and only get an email back saying you will get a van in a month or two. so the more people know the better.
if you buy parts from me and down the road wish to sell your vehicle, I have a web page that I use to help out my customers, Free of charge to post a van on my site, TO my customers.
That being said, what is your advice for buying from Japan, Clearly you have lived there or traveled to japan extensivly to be such a expert on how things are. perhaps you could educate the rest of us.

agree that the more knowledge the better for those interested in importing and other places to buy rather than just auction. would the paper you mentioned earlier as shakkens be a shaken report or shaken certificate? is there anywhere I can find on the web what paper you are talking about if you don't want to show the ones you have?

[Konnichiwa]

While odometer tampering does happen from time to time, it is not the general rule of thumb. It happens way more to North American vehicles sold here than to vehicles brought from overseas. If you think buying a vehicle with a shaken will protect you from this, it's about as good a form of defense as the ostrich exhibits. Odometers are not rolled back like they used to be, now they are simply disconnected and then reconnected for servicing and inspections. The terms shaken and haircuts are just being thrown out there to discourage individuals from importing themselves. This type of fear mongering is getting tiresome. Of course there are risks buying from auction, but if you think they are less because you are buying a vehicle that was bought privately with a shaken, well you better find some sand and join the ostrich. Does odometer tampering happen? Of course it does, but it is not common. Dealers in Japan will often buy vehicles before they are elligible for export and then sit on them until they can be exported. Buy low, sell high. Simple business plan. Just because a vehicle doesn't have a shaken, or wasn't registered for awhile doesn't mean it is in any worse shape than a vehicle with a current shaken. Sometimes they are in better shape. And just because the milage is low doesn't mean it was tampered with, Japan is full of both low and high milage vehicles. There are lots of Delicas with 300,000km on them. they are usualy company vehicles, or car poolers. There will always be people trying to scare you away from doing what they are doing. Don't let that deter you. There are those who will help you if you want to do it yourself, just ask.

You failed to mention that you are a mechanic and can work on your own vehicle for "free". For you it is easy to jump in and take whatever the auction throws at you. Most people don't want to be gambling with thousands of $$$$ +/-.

Keep in mind that for cheap priced vehicles (under JPY 200-300k at auction) there is no guarantee of milage, rust, mechanical, cosmetic etc. That is why sometimes the problems are not even listed on the inspection report (because it doesn't matter and no refund available).

[39Ronin]

While odometer tampering does happen from time to time, it is not the general rule of thumb. It happens way more to North American vehicles sold here than to vehicles brought from overseas. If you think buying a vehicle with a shaken will protect you from this, it's about as good a form of defense as the ostrich exhibits. Odometers are not rolled back like they used to be, now they are simply disconnected and then reconnected for servicing and inspections. The terms shaken and haircuts are just being thrown out there to discourage individuals from importing themselves. This type of fear mongering is getting tiresome. Of course there are risks buying from auction, but if you think they are less because you are buying a vehicle that was bought privately with a shaken, well you better find some sand and join the ostrich. Does odometer tampering happen? Of course it does, but it is not common. Dealers in Japan will often buy vehicles before they are elligible for export and then sit on them until they can be exported. Buy low, sell high. Simple business plan. Just because a vehicle doesn't have a shaken, or wasn't registered for awhile doesn't mean it is in any worse shape than a vehicle with a current shaken. Sometimes they are in better shape. And just because the milage is low doesn't mean it was tampered with, Japan is full of both low and high milage vehicles. There are lots of Delicas with 300,000km on them. they are usualy company vehicles, or car poolers. There will always be people trying to scare you away from doing what they are doing. Don't let that deter you. There are those who will help you if you want to do it yourself, just ask.

WOW...?
Just curious as to why you made the above comments, granted everybody has a right to an opinion, but what makes you believe this? Have you owned a "shaken" and "non shaken vehicle" before? Have you seen more than three Delicas in Manitoba? Did you visit Japan or live there? Don't take it the wrong way I'm just trying to figure out why you believe this. If you said that you owned 30 Delicas and 10 were "shaken" and 20 were not and the "non shaken" ones over the coarse of 5 years faired as well mechanically as the "shaken" ones then I would understand your comments better. Just give us insight to your expertise.

You are right about rollbacks, they are not common because the small palstic cogs in an analog odo cluster are fragile and designed to break when rolled back. Whole clusters are usually swapped out instead.
You are totally offside about the "shaken" comments though, what you suggest is that people buy without any knowledge or history of the vehicle what so ever. Seems to me that this is what shady import dealers would like to exploit and down play because they don't want to pay the premium for "shaken" vehicles. Having the last few "shakens" coupled with a physical check that would confirm wear and tear being coherent with the reported milage is always wise. I can assure you if you have a "shaken" vehicle next to one that sat around for 5 years you will notice the difference. No fear mongering about smart business decissions here.

For the record I have owned both and the "shaken" vehicles were way better quality and never had any of the nagging issues of the "non shaken" ones.

[after oil]

it has been my experience that shaken vehicles, because they have been driven recently, are maintained and in better mechanical shape

[marsgal42]

You get what you pay for, in other words.

Gumdrop's Shaken had only just expired (due in July 2007, on the boat to Canada in August 2007), and came with full service history (albeit all in Japanese) from the Mitsubishi dealer in Japan who maintained her. The numbers are clear, even if nothing else is.

...laura

[DelicaFreaka]

While odometer tampering does happen from time to time, it is not the general rule of thumb. It happens way more to North American vehicles sold here than to vehicles brought from overseas. If you think buying a vehicle with a shaken will protect you from this, it's about as good a form of defense as the ostrich exhibits. Odometers are not rolled back like they used to be, now they are simply disconnected and then reconnected for servicing and inspections. The terms shaken and haircuts are just being thrown out there to discourage individuals from importing themselves. This type of fear mongering is getting tiresome. Of course there are risks buying from auction, but if you think they are less because you are buying a vehicle that was bought privately with a shaken, well you better find some sand and join the ostrich. Does odometer tampering happen? Of course it does, but it is not common. Dealers in Japan will often buy vehicles before they are elligible for export and then sit on them until they can be exported. Buy low, sell high. Simple business plan. Just because a vehicle doesn't have a shaken, or wasn't registered for awhile doesn't mean it is in any worse shape than a vehicle with a current shaken. Sometimes they are in better shape. And just because the milage is low doesn't mean it was tampered with, Japan is full of both low and high milage vehicles. There are lots of Delicas with 300,000km on them. they are usualy company vehicles, or car poolers. There will always be people trying to scare you away from doing what they are doing. Don't let that deter you. There are those who will help you if you want to do it yourself, just ask.

WOW...?
Just curious as to why you made the above comments, granted everybody has a right to an opinion, but what makes you believe this? Have you owned a "shaken" and "non shaken vehicle" before? Have you seen more than three Delicas in Manitoba? Did you visit Japan or live there? Don't take it the wrong way I'm just trying to figure out why you believe this. If you said that you owned 30 Delicas and 10 were "shaken" and 20 were not and the "non shaken" ones over the coarse of 5 years faired as well mechanically as the "shaken" ones then I would understand your comments better. Just give us insight to your expertise.

You are right about rollbacks, they are not common because the small palstic cogs in an analog odo cluster are fragile and designed to break when rolled back. Whole clusters are usually swapped out instead.
You are totally offside about the "shaken" comments though, what you suggest is that people buy without any knowledge or history of the vehicle what so ever. Seems to me that this is what shady import dealers would like to exploit and down play because they don't want to pay the premium for "shaken" vehicles. Having the last few "shakens" coupled with a physical check that would confirm wear and tear being coherent with the reported milage is always wise. I can assure you if you have a "shaken" vehicle next to one that sat around for 5 years you will notice the difference. No fear mongering about smart business decissions here.

For the record I have owned both and the "shaken" vehicles were way better quality and never had any of the nagging issues of the "non shaken" ones.

Jason, you've "shaken" the Deli community. Atta boy.....keep them on their toes!!.............................Kirk out.

[Manitoba deli]

While I have not lived in Japan, that doesn't mean I don't know any one there. I would like to think that I did my homework before importing my vehicles, and I haven't only imported delicas. While I am not a large importer, I think that the fact that I have imported 17 jdm's in the last 12 months, with #18 ariving early Dec (a nice l400 super exceed 4 sale) should give my a little bit of knowledge as to what I'm doing. I've had both shaken and un-shaken. The mechanical work has never been more than routine maintance. Because I am a mechanic, I can tell if the milage is accurate according to parts that are worn or have been replaced. I have never had a vehicle with a "haircut" but I am also not naieve enough to say it never happens. The point I am trying to make, is that "haircuts" are not a huge problem, and a shaken only documents mechanical condition at the time of inspection and records the milage. no proof it is genuine. The car could have had the odometer disconected, drove for a 100,000km, odometer reconected, repairs performed at "Japanese Tire" and then taken in for a shaken to an authorized agent, passes with flying colors. While this is also not a common occurance, it has happened. Again, a shaken isn't a gaurentee, if it makes your stomach feel a little easier, great, but pepto-bismol works too. As much as I would like to sell everyone a JDM, I would never try to discourage anyone from buying at auction, I do it, and I've had good results. I did however do a lot of research, and my findings were: "haircuts"-extremely rare
shaken-usualy same condition as non-shaken. Sometimes better, sometimes worse.
If I missed answering some of the questions, feel free to point them out to me and I can let you know what I've learned along the way.

Jason

[delicabits]

what makes you think that the japanese don't drive like north americans if you haven't been there? have you had a good look at japanese car culture and what comes from there like drifting, lifted vehicles, amazing fibreglass work?

[Konnichiwa]

what makes you think that the japanese don't drive like north americans if you haven't been there? have you had a good look at japanese car culture and what comes from there like drifting, lifted vehicles, amazing fibreglass work?

Should have less KM because those vehicles must be parked for years during modifcation..... unless they sell that stuff as a kit... in which case I want to buy!!!!!!!!!!!