Possible harmonic balancer/crankshaft pulley issue?

[billybor]

Hello,

Just had a new noise start on my delica ('95 turbo diesel) a few days ago. It sounds somewhat like a squeaky belt but I'm almost positive that isn't it. (had plenty of squeaky belts lately and tightened them up and the squeak stopped) Sounds really loud at idle but is either overcome by engine noise or stops noise at 40 km/hr or so. Took off cover of timing belt and sounds like squeak was coming from there. Upon further inspection, put deli on lift and the sounds seems to be coming directly from the harmonic balancer/pulleys that are on the crankshaft. Noticed what looks like a shiny spot (metal wear maybe) in between two pulleys on crankshaft. Does anyone have any experience with this or know of a part number for the balancer and or pulley? Can't find it on Delica Wiki. Also, I live in the U.S. so any parts codes that would cross reference with NAPA would work. The part codes from Delicawiki seemed to work with belts as I've used those before and they worked. Also, when I took off the cover, the timing belt looked ok to me, but I'm not sure when it was last changed, car is now at 90,000 km, I bought it with 45,000 km on it back in the UK, should I do the timing belts if I do the harmonic balancer,etc... even though the belts look ok and don't seem to need it?

Thanks for any and all advice/help.

Brent

[jessef]

Have a mechanic check out your timing belt and your crankshaft pulley. If either goes, then you need a new engine. That's worst case scenario but not one to overlook.

When my crankshaft pulley was on it's way out it made a chain-like grinding noise. Had my friend not told me (I couldn't hear it inside) then I would have been shopping for a new engine.

http://www.delica.ca/forum/undoing-the- ... -5262.html

Pry bar and a spare belt

put the belt around the crank pulley (alt or power steering)

put the pry bar end onto the belt on the pulley and use the leverage against the block/power steering pump bracket side.

That will create enough tension to have someone back it off with an impact gun or breaker bar.

Same procedure to put the pulley back on except use a torque wrench and hit it at 90 then 120 ft lbs.

It won't come loose after that.

My crank bolt was loose and caused the pulley to vibrate. The key worn a groove into the pulley and was getting worse.

It was only out by .9 mm. Almost nothing, but enough to start causing havoc.

If the pulley is not snug up against the crank shaft/key (after you get the belts/bolt out) then check the key to see if it's smaller than 5mm and/or the pulley groove is larger than 5mm.

If they are, then you can order a new crank pulley/key from john at rockymountain.

[Blueberry]

Sounds exactly what I just went through - the harmonic balancer came apart breaking the accessory belts. Replacing the pulley is not hard, just time consuming. I got a used pulley from CC Autos; don't know if a part crosses over to a Napa number.
If it's making the noises you describe, best to do it soon as when it lets go everything stops working that is driven by belts (water pump and ps pump as well as alternator)

hth's
Graeme

[Erebus]

Is your 95 an L300 or L400? If it is an L300 and the timing belt hasn't been replace, I strongly recommend doing the full workup, replace the timing belt, balancer belts, tensioners, waterpump, etc. Although the usual for the timing belt is 90,000 km, it should also be replaced after 5-7 years. So a 95 is well overdue.

The L400 has a timing chain, so doesn't really need changing. Don't know the details on balancers on an L400, I'll leave that to experts.

[jessef]

Don't get a used one.

You can get a brand new OEM one from John at RockyMountain imports I think (don't quote me on it) for around $250 or so.

Make sure you install the brand new key as well.

[Green1]

The L400 has a timing chain, so doesn't really need changing

That's not entirely accurate... timing chains usually need changing around the 300,000km mark (instead of 100,000km for a belt) Though I've seen a few places state the timing chain on the L400 should be done every 100,000km... I'm not sure if there's something wrong with mitsubishi timing chains, or if this is a case of people taking the numbers from the L300 and ignoring the differences...

The one thing that is generally true though is that although a belt needs changing after 5 years regardless of mileage, a chain doesn't really care about age, only how much the engine has run.

[BenLumley]

I had the same squeaking sounds. Yesterday a more ominous banging sound. Took it to a mechanic and the harmonic balancer is broken.

I am in Florida right now with my '94 Delica L300 and have ordered a new one from Rocky Mountain Imports.

Any tips I can give the mechanic here who is not familiar with Delicas?

Also, I had new alternator belts installed recently. Could the broken harmonic balancer be due to incorrect alignment from installing these belts?

Thanks,
Ben

(ps. otherwise the Delica has been great for the first 7000km of this trip!)

[Green1]

Any tips I can give the mechanic here who is not familiar with Delicas?

The big tips I can think of are:
1) Don't Panic! It's a very simple engine, anybody who knows which end of a wrench to use can work on it.
2) when replacing the balance belt you should check the timing belt, it is not unheard of for the balancer belt to damage the timing belt when it breaks
3) make sure the timing marks still line up, balancer belts have been known to occasionally cause the timing belt to "skip" when they break.

Also, I had new alternator belts installed recently. Could the broken harmonic balancer be due to incorrect alignment from installing these belts?

I really can't think of any way that could happen.

Good luck getting your vehicle back on the road, and enjoy the rest of your trip.

[BenLumley]

Thanks for your quick reply.

I'll try not to panic!

... and pass your pointers along to the mechanic.

Cheers,

Ben

[jessef]

Any tips I can give the mechanic here who is not familiar with Delicas?

Here you go :

Pry bar and a spare belt

put the belt around the crank pulley (alt or power steering)

put the pry bar end onto the belt on the pulley and use the leverage against the block/power steering pump bracket side.

That will create enough tension to have someone back it off with an impact gun or breaker bar.

Same procedure to put the pulley back on except use a torque wrench and hit it at 90 then 120 ft lbs.

It won't come loose after that.

My crank bolt was loose and caused the pulley to vibrate. The key worn a groove into the pulley and was getting worse.

It was only out by .9 mm. Almost nothing, but enough to start causing havoc.

If the pulley is not snug up against the crank shaft/key (after you get the belts/bolt out) then check the key to see if it's smaller than 5mm and/or the pulley groove is larger than 5mm.

If they are, then you can order a new crank pulley/key from john at rockymountain.

[BenLumley]

I'd never heard of a 'harmonic balancer' until yesterday.

Thanks for your directions. I didn't understand:

" check the key to see if it's smaller than 5mm and/or the pulley groove is larger than 5mm."

My impression from the mechanic that diagnosed it is they don't want to see the Delica again until the part comes in. (I don't know if I have the ability to diagnose anything until then)

I will pass on your instruction to them.

(Will it need new belts? They can be ordered locally right?)

Cheers

(At least it broke in Florida and not the mid west going by the weather reports!)

[jessef]

There is a square groove in the crankshaft itself. In it, resides a key (square metal piece) that sticks out. The square part of the key that protrudes from the crankshaft fits exactly into the square groove in the crankshaft pulley (see below)

If the key and/ pulley groove is worn, it will cause an imbalance, vibration and will lead to engine failure once the key breaks or is worn down flat.

The key width is 5mm
The crankshaft machined groove is 5mm wide
The crankshaft pulley groove is 5mm wide

Have your mechanic measure it with a precise caliper.

The new crankshaft pulley comes with a new key. Look for it in the package. It's small and usually taped to something so it doesn't fall out.

Have the mechanic install the new key as well.

[Green1]

jfarsang: I think you're confusing 2 different posters, the original one had crankshaft pulley issues, the most recent one only stated they had a broken balancer belt.

I would recommend checking the crankshaft pulley to make sure it is on securely and without any play in it, however I don't think it needs replacing in this case, just the ballancer belt.

[Lapprentis]

I will post here first in the hope to have some advices, the sooner the better !

I am having grinding noises too in the front engine area since a while but now want to take care of it. I did checked in the front of the crankshaft right behind the radiator propeller/fan and I can see it is NOT turning straight/centered so I suspect the problem is in that area. After seraching on the forum, i suspect it could be the Crankshaft Pulley-harmonic balancers problem....

I do have an audio file: will sent it to you if you say you want to listen to it: just ask, I will sent it.

Any help appreciated: possible problem, solution, parts needed...

Much Thanks

Lapprentis

[Growlerbearnz]

The crankshaft pulley is made in two pieces: the inner part that attaches to the crankshaft, and the outer part that has the belt grooves. They are held together with rubber, and sometimes the rubber breaks down, letting the outer part move around. That's what your issue sounds like.

The only solution is to replace the whole thing. Mitsubishi Part number is MD110165, Febest aftermarket part MDS-002. Amazon has a replacement for US$44 here: http://www.amazon.com/Febest-Mitsubishi ... B00C6MWN4Q