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Re: Occupy vancouver
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:22 pm
by jessef
In the US, the occupy protests are beginning to get violent which is not a good sign.
Those idiots need to be removed from the occupy general populace before they create havoc and the protests turn into riots which is what the last oakland protest turned out to be. Looting, public damage and fighting.
Hopefully it stays isolated and doesn't spread to other states and up here.
Re: Occupy vancouver
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:07 am
by after oil
in the US it is provocateurs that are causing the violence. they have been exposed. occupiers are cleaning graffitti and writing official apologies for the violence that we oppose. i take offense from the CBC report of the oakland general strike. they started with "violence erupted" then mentioned a few thousand showed up for a march. when in fact, the news is, it was a general strike, with over 40,000 peaceful marchers. the report said the port was closed down without mentioning it was a strike and the longshoreman supported the strike. CBC is Liar King Harpers mouthpiece, not the voice of Canada like it once was!
Re: Occupy vancouver
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:27 am
by FalcoColumbarius
after oil wrote:....... CBC is Liar King Harpers mouthpiece, not the voice of Canada like it once was!
The CBC, like the BBC, has always answered to the elected government. Used to give a Liberal slant, now gives a Conservative slant.
Falco.
Re: Occupy vancouver
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:29 am
by Profister
after oil wrote:CBC is Liar King Harpers mouthpiece
Absolutely. In fact most of the mass media is in the same category. Do you remember Mark Twain? "If you ignore the news you are uninformed. If you read the news you are misinformed." Unfortunately the majority of our population does not realize that this is how Big Crooks are achieving their goals by pushing the crowd in the certain direction. By the way Russians call a TV a 'zombiebox'.
Re: Occupy vancouver
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:33 am
by jessef
How true.
Western society in general today feeds off negative media. Look at the US elections right now. It's a reality gossip TV series. What a joke.
Re: Occupy vancouver
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:41 am
by lopar
jfarsang wrote:Western society in general today feeds off negative media.
Kind of like this post.............
Can't remember, but I think it was about 80% of all human conversation is B$tching and Complaining. Just think about this entire forum, it's all complaints and problems (with good intent and productivity mind you) with lots o' bickering for filler (more than half of most posts).
C'est la vie!
Re: Occupy vancouver
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:04 am
by mac_stang
If anyone goes down to the art gallery, you may be able to catch a real overdose!! Time to close down the occupy "homeless" camp.
A young woman actually died on site this weekend...pretty sad.
Brad.
Re: Occupy vancouver
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:39 pm
by FalcoColumbarius
- I came upon a child of God
He was walking along the road,
And I asked him "Where are you going?" ~
And this he told me.
I'm going on down to Yasgur's farm
I'm going to join in a rock & roll band,
I'm gonna camp out on the land ~
I'm gonna get my soul free.
We are stardust
We are golden
And we've got to get ourselves back to the garden.
Then can I walk beside you?
I have come here to lose the smog,
And I feel to be a cog ~
In something turning.
Well maybe it's the time of year
Or maybe it's the time of man,
I don't know who I am ~
But life is for learning.
We are stardust
We are golden
And we've got to get ourselves back to the garden.
By the time we got to Woodstock
We were half a million strong,
And everywhere there was song ~
and celebration.
And I dreamed I saw the bombers
Riding shotgun in the sky,
Turning into butterflies ~
Above our nation.
We are stardust
(Billion year old carbon)
We are golden
(Caught in the Devil's bargain)
And we've got to get ourselves back to the garden.
(Joni)
Re: Occupy vancouver
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:23 pm
by bassnailer
I love Joni!
Funny thing... she never went to Woodstock.
The occupy movement here has become a mess. Good intentions with no direction. How can you succeed?
Re: Occupy vancouver
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:36 pm
by jessef
It is great to see so many people come together. Unity is inspiring and can do wonders.
It is good that people are finally getting involved, when in the past, people have been so apathetic towards our political system.
This is what I like.
Those are the positives. If everything was honky dory and we lived in a fairytale, then it would start there and with the momentum and positives, the occupy movement would carry the long list of demands through to the top.
Unfortunately, we live in a real world and things move at different paces, albeit complex as well.
The current occupy vancouver list of demands requires more structure, focus and utilized as a vehicle (not as a placard) to move forward. Currently at the stage it is at today, it will be almost impossible with the variety of minds into it that are thinking in different directions.
Everyone understands the concept of attacking the system as whole, but it's futile to do so from the outside. Especially when the claimed 99% are not providing a solution and expecting the people who created this "corrupt system" to come up with the solution for everyone.
Work towards a solution:
Opportunity cost. The concept of what you have gained or lost based on where you have allocated your resources. "Resources" in this case being manpower. The protestors could have substituted their protest hours for minimum wage work hours. Taken 90% of their pay, pooled it into a fund and created a fairly economically stable lobby group. A lobby group would be more sustainable (especially during the winter), have more impact, can maintain a positive public image and with the 10% leftover from their pay they could pay their iPhone bills.
Want to be heard? Voting is coming up. Every single one of those protesters had better vote otherwise those that do not will be a silent voice not heard in our political system (which needs massive rebuilding).
My point. This movement is a waste of truly excellent human resources unless some focused direction is to take place. Let's hope it does soon.
Re: Occupy vancouver
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:27 pm
by mararmeisto
jfarsang wrote:...unless some focused direction is to take place. Let's hope it does soon.
And therein lies a part of their problem: they're all just sitting around
hoping for something to happen,
hoping for some change,
hoping for some direction.
What most of them has not figured out for themselves is a simple truth: nothing coming from hope, nothing comes from wishing, nothing comes from prayer. Only action produces results; only motivation results in satisfaction; only getting involved will get anything done.
Re: Occupy vancouver
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:37 pm
by after oil
jesse, the "Current List of Demands" you speak of does not exist. what the media has presented is a leaked DRAFT of a working document.
mac_stang wrote:If anyone goes down to the art gallery, you may be able to catch a real overdose!! Time to close down the occupy "homeless" camp.
A young woman actually died on site this weekend...pretty sad.
Brad.
brad you are very insensitive. ashleigh was somebody's daughter, not an attraction. if you think the camp should be shut down because of a supposed drug overdose, (official cause of death has not been released, although the Fire Dept. "suspects" overdose") then you must agree that all of Vancouver must be shut down because of overdoses. If Ashleigh died in an alley a block away you wouldnt give two $hits about her.
mararmeisto wrote:jfarsang wrote:...unless some focused direction is to take place. Let's hope it does soon.
And therein lies a part of their problem: they're all just sitting around
hoping for something to happen,
hoping for some change,
hoping for some direction.
What most of them has not figured out for themselves is a simple truth: nothing coming from hope, nothing comes from wishing, nothing comes from prayer. Only action produces results; only motivation results in satisfaction; only getting involved will get anything done.
mararmeisto, the Occupy IS action, it IS in fact getting involved. These people have left their comfort zones to bring their dissatisfaction to the forefront where it can be seen that there is a problem with the current economic system. they are marching, they are having General Assemblies every day twice a day where they discuss the important issues and how to address them. this action will take a very long time to make some changes. If you think they are sitting around then it is obvious that you havent looked to see what they are doing. you could go down and ask somebody. you could check the websites of the various Occupys.
Re: Occupy vancouver
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:27 pm
by mararmeisto
after oil wrote:mararmeisto wrote:jfarsang wrote:...unless some focused direction is to take place. Let's hope it does soon.
And therein lies a part of their problem: they're all just sitting around
hoping for something to happen,
hoping for some change,
hoping for some direction.
What most of them has not figured out for themselves is a simple truth: nothing coming from hope, nothing comes from wishing, nothing comes from prayer. Only action produces results; only motivation results in satisfaction; only getting involved will get anything done.
mararmeisto, the Occupy IS action, it IS in fact getting involved. These people have left their comfort zones to bring their dissatisfaction to the forefront where it can be seen that there is a problem with the current economic system. they are marching, they are having General Assemblies every day twice a day where they discuss the important issues and how to address them. this action will take a very long time to make some changes. If you think they are sitting around then it is obvious that you havent looked to see what they are doing. you could go down and ask somebody. you could check the websites of the various Occupys.
No, for the most part it's sitting around complaining about not getting what they think is their "right".
If they want to get involved, show up at city hall on a regular basis and/or get involved in municipal planning. If they want to get involved, show up at a MLA's constituency office and talk with them about what kind of provincially-controled issues should be changed. If they want to get involved, sit in the gallery in the House of Commons (I'll let everyone in on a secret: "Commons" as in the common folk, as in those chosen by the masses to speak for the masses), talk to your Member of Parliament, get involved in a political party and be a part of change. Become a part of the process.
Setting up tents, and pit toilets, and tearing up the lawn of the public's art gallery, museum, library, whatever, etc is not getting involved. That's not becoming a part of the process. It's more often than not simply another manifestion of the problem.
As to the issue of whether their demands was only a draft or a final copy, a bit more word-smithing is really not going to make some of their points any more salient.
Re: Occupy vancouver
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:38 pm
by FalcoColumbarius
mararmeisto wrote:...No, for the most part it's sitting around complaining about not getting what they think is their "right". ...
I feel one must consider that we, and many other forums are talking about this. His Worship The Mayor of Vancouver and his challenger for the municipal election are talking about it and I'll wager that many mayors are talking about it. General governments are talking about this. One must remember that something similar has recently happened in the Middle East. So ~ Currently the OWS people are sitting patiently waiting, an action that has many people talking. And let's face it, it worked pretty well for Mahatma Gandhi and successfully removed one of the greatest empires out of India without firing a shot.
There is a bad situation happening these days. I remember when working one hour at minimum wage could buy you an LP, a pack of smokes, a bottomless cup of coffee and a Mars Bar. My savings account brought me interest at 13% (there were better deals, as well). A case of beer was $2.36. If you got fired in the morning at one job, you could be working at another by the afternoon. This is not the case today. I think that everyone should pay close attention to what they are saying instead of telling them to go out and get a job like they grow on trees.
It kind of reminds me of when the spokesman for a cause pleaded with the government of the time that the people had no bread on their plates and someone's wife blurted out "Well, let them eat cake".
Currently, Canada is not as bad off as the people in the States.... for how long?
Today the minimum wage has been increased to $10.00 per hour. What can you buy for that? Most of a pack of cigarettes? Half a CD? Close to five Mars Bars? Four or five coffees? You could bank it at an exciting rate of 1.6%. You can't even purchase a half sack of beer.
Perhaps there should be more focus ~ from us, the watchers. Maybe we should do more than observe and make comments that ~ you've got to admit ~ have been shaped by the current environment.
Falco.
Re: Occupy vancouver
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:13 pm
by after oil
mararmeisto wrote:If they want to get involved, show up at city hall on a regular basis and/or get involved in municipal planning. If they want to get involved, show up at a MLA's constituency office and talk with them about what kind of provincially-controled issues should be changed. If they want to get involved, sit in the gallery in the House of Commons (I'll let everyone in on a secret: "Commons" as in the common folk, as in those chosen by the masses to speak for the masses), talk to your Member of Parliament, get involved in a political party and be a part of change. Become a part of the process.
it has been my personal experience, time and time again, that engaging the powers that be, (the predominately white male 60's+ with a pile of money) does very little to accomplish any meaningful change. many of the valid demands The 99% are making arent even open for discussion. the occupy's are creating a horizontal democracy where resolutions are created by consensus.
you know the old saying "You cant fight City Hall" well its true, there has been no meaningful change to help the homeless or addicted, the poor or the Indigenous. not to mention the environment or the coming energy descent.