Re: Going Electric?
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:47 pm
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Going Electric?
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Re: Going Electric?
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:02 pm
Unfortunately when it comes to electric cars, a road trip would take forever if you have to stop and recharge constantly. This technology is only good for city driving close to home. The air would at least be easy to refill easily on route but the speed is limiting and I had one drive not long ago where I went 460km before seeing a gas station (where I would assume you would re-fill with air as well) and the range on the vehicle is only 150-200km. It seems that we have lots of options for city driving but none for longer distances which is why I like the idea of hydrogen whether or not it is more dangerous than gas. A hybrid hydrogen vehicle would be neat!
Re: Going Electric?
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:31 am
Electric cars and roads trip could mix very nicely - using existing technology.
Imagine a standardized battery module that could be detached and replaced from underneath in minutes at an automated refuelling facility. Batteries would belong to the infrastructure - kind of like a propane tank exchange. You would pay for electricity consumed. All we need is a huge amount of public will to construct it.
And all that gas wouldn't have to hauled all across the country either - it's a dirty business and "small" spills are common place. Wouldn't be much good in the back country though. The way things are going there won't be a "THE REPACEMENT FOR GAS" but it will more likely be a whole myriad of solutions that make sense in different situations for different reasons.
The one thing people usually don't understand about hydrogen is that it is really just a storage medium, rather than a fuel. Enormous amounts of electric energy are required to produce hydrogen, which essentially stores it, minus various losses. This energy has to come from the same sources we have now - dams, wind, coal, etc. With Hydrogen, the more important question is not will it work as a fuel, but how will the hydrogen be produced.
Imagine a standardized battery module that could be detached and replaced from underneath in minutes at an automated refuelling facility. Batteries would belong to the infrastructure - kind of like a propane tank exchange. You would pay for electricity consumed. All we need is a huge amount of public will to construct it.
And all that gas wouldn't have to hauled all across the country either - it's a dirty business and "small" spills are common place. Wouldn't be much good in the back country though. The way things are going there won't be a "THE REPACEMENT FOR GAS" but it will more likely be a whole myriad of solutions that make sense in different situations for different reasons.
The one thing people usually don't understand about hydrogen is that it is really just a storage medium, rather than a fuel. Enormous amounts of electric energy are required to produce hydrogen, which essentially stores it, minus various losses. This energy has to come from the same sources we have now - dams, wind, coal, etc. With Hydrogen, the more important question is not will it work as a fuel, but how will the hydrogen be produced.
Re: Going Electric?
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:47 pm
Two words:
Fisker Karma
Fisker Karma
Re: Going Electric?
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:59 pm
Seen one, then went home to look it up on the 'Net: ouch!jfarsang wrote:Two words:
Fisker Karma
Tesla Cars is another.
Hydrogen is a loss system: just as much energy (or more by many accounts) put into getting the 'fuel' as there is output when burned. Oil (or wood or coal) is a wonderful fuel because Mother Nature has done the majority of the work for us.
Cost vs contaminents vs recycling, I read recently that lead-acid is still the 'best' battery, by far. I'll see if I can dredge up the document.
Re: Going Electric?
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:43 pm
I disagree, mother nature has not done the majority of the work. the costs of extraction and production are just as high as hydrogen would be. the reason hydrogen is a "loss" as you call it is because there has not been a need to increase the technology and facilities of sourcing it and using it since we use all the other fossil fuels.
Hydrogen is by far the most abundant fuel source available.
Hydrogen is by far the most abundant fuel source available.
Re: Going Electric?
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:23 pm
Every fuel being mentioned requires work to create it. We're lucky in BC that we have water to create electricity but for those who burn coal etc how is that good for the environment? Buy an electric car in England and you'll have to tell people it's coal powered. 
The other problem with batteries is that they have a limited lifespan. create a lot of pollutants in the creation process, and we still don't have ones that will last for long enough periods of time (even in the cars mentioned above) to get you from one gas station to the next (if the stations supply you with new batteries).
Hydrogen does require energy to produce although no more so than drilling for oil in the ocean and oil companies are doing that still. I agree with Rezdiver, the technology to create hydrogen more efficiently just hasn't been perfected yet.
The other problem with batteries is that they have a limited lifespan. create a lot of pollutants in the creation process, and we still don't have ones that will last for long enough periods of time (even in the cars mentioned above) to get you from one gas station to the next (if the stations supply you with new batteries).Hydrogen does require energy to produce although no more so than drilling for oil in the ocean and oil companies are doing that still. I agree with Rezdiver, the technology to create hydrogen more efficiently just hasn't been perfected yet.
Re: Going Electric?
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:36 pm
I guess that's what they mean by "carbon footprint". We're here, you can tell because we've left footprints. I'm not particularly ashamed of that ~ do we want not to leave footprints? Will the tide not eventually come in and wash them all away? In the end I'm really not sure how they get the "stuff". I understand that diesel is less of a pollutant than gasoline, as the soot is heavier than air (once it has cooled down), thereby not eating the ozone layer but we still breath it, like we do with gasoline.
Then there is the WVO/SVO concept. Problem is that if we were to dedicate every square inch of arable land to corn oil for motor vehicles (which means no food for us) then we still wouldn't have enough to maintain the current vehicle lifestyle. One reason for this is the lack of calories in vegetable oil opposed to dino-diesel (poorer mileage). A couple of years back I read an article in the National Geographic about an outfit outside of Phoenix, Arizona that produces algae "biofuel". Unlike corn oil where you only produce one or two crops per year, algae produces twice a day. There could be something to it, 'though it kind of reminds me of Soylant Green.
Hungry, hungry future?
Falco.
Then there is the WVO/SVO concept. Problem is that if we were to dedicate every square inch of arable land to corn oil for motor vehicles (which means no food for us) then we still wouldn't have enough to maintain the current vehicle lifestyle. One reason for this is the lack of calories in vegetable oil opposed to dino-diesel (poorer mileage). A couple of years back I read an article in the National Geographic about an outfit outside of Phoenix, Arizona that produces algae "biofuel". Unlike corn oil where you only produce one or two crops per year, algae produces twice a day. There could be something to it, 'though it kind of reminds me of Soylant Green.
Hungry, hungry future?
Falco.
Re: Going Electric?
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:26 am
There is not enough WVO to power all our vehicles (even if they were all non-electronically-fuel-injected diesels), and SVO is a grievous waste of food resources.
Agree with the efficient-technology-for-hydrogen-production comments. And I really don't think it'll take off until there is a definitive crisis with oil production/distribution - sadly.
Back to the original post, though: has anyone researched any further the idea of converting a Delica or a Van Wagon (probably the better option) into an electric vehicle?
Agree with the efficient-technology-for-hydrogen-production comments. And I really don't think it'll take off until there is a definitive crisis with oil production/distribution - sadly.
Back to the original post, though: has anyone researched any further the idea of converting a Delica or a Van Wagon (probably the better option) into an electric vehicle?