Delica Canada | Mitsubishi Van Club

2) According to the law they must prove that not only is there soil, but that it has "alien species" in it, legally this requires sending a sample to a lab, something customs is refusing to do.

Highly doubt you are correct here. That would be a huge expense to the taxpayer and extremely slow if not impossible to isolate out all the living organisms in the soil sample. If it is soil then it HAS bacteria, fungi and nematodes for sure and possibly insect eggs, plant seeds etc etc etc. Many of those would be foreign to the Canadian ecosystem and pose a threat. Maybe the individual has the right to pay for a lab inspection...

CBSA/CFIA shouldn't pass anything with any sign of soil contamination BUT you should be able to have the item washed in a certified facility, this proposed immediate export from the country in teh Calgary letter is flaky.

Its also common knowledge that for quite a while containers were not even being inspected in Vancouver, if somone new is on the job who hasn't given up on their job yet then I would expect more inspections and more failures as a result. Also note that the PSAC union members of CBSA are pissed about extremely slow contract negotiations with treasury board (PSAC has been without an agreement for over a year) and are taking 'job actions' such as highly increased full inspection of cargo and people to cause slow downs.

Prohibitions

42. (1) The Minister or an inspector may prohibit a thing from entering Canada where the Minister or an inspector determines, on the basis of the type of the thing or of a known or suspected infestation at the place of propagation or production, or place from which the thing was shipped, that

(a) the thing is a pest;

(b) the thing is or could be infested or constitutes or could constitute a biological obstacle to the control of a pest that cannot be treated or processed to the extent necessary to ensure that the thing is not a pest or infested or is no longer a biological obstacle to the control of a pest;

(c) a foreign Phytosanitary Certificate cannot be obtained from the country of origin or a foreign Phytosanitary Certificate for Re-export cannot be obtained from the country of re-export of the thing; or

(d) failure to do so would or could result in the introduction into Canada, or spread within Canada, of a pest or a biological obstacle to the control of a pest.

(2) No person shall import into Canada a thing that the Minister or an inspector has prohibited from entering Canada in writing, or in a permit where the permit prohibits the importation of that thing.

How do you prove that something is infested with a pest if you refuse to check it?

We're not even talking soil here. they are failing cars for not being sparkling clean (you try to get a vehicle all the way from Japan without any dust settling on it!)

CFIA is in charge of all of this, they have delegated their responsibility to CBSA, who currently is refusing to follow the rules in place by CFIA.

PLEASE follow up further on IVOAC, that is where we will be able to make a difference.

You brought this information to this thread, then when asked to qualify it in some manner, you say it's not your problem and tell me to go look elsewhere. Now that's real helpful. You made the statements so don't get pissy if you're challenged on them.

Again, I'd really like to know more about all these 100% of containers that have been sent back to Japan already. I don't care where the information came from, you quoted it, so back it up! Give us some facts please or withdraw the statement and leave the hearsay back on the forum where it originated.

Above I quoted information as given to a representative of the Canadian International Freight Forwarders Association Inc. and the Canadian Society of Customs Brokers today by a representative of the CSBC. Now I will not post their names publicly but would be happy to supply and qualify that statement in person. Until I have reason to believe differently, I think I'll go by that version for now at least.

I'd really like to know more about all these 100% of containers that have been sent back to Japan already

I never said that ANY containers were sent back to Japan, in fact I clearly stated that that will not happen for another 10 days.
I DID state that every container inspected in Calgary in the past little while has failed inspection and been sent for cleaning, however in 10 more days if containers continue to fail at the same rate (100%) then they will all be shipped out of country as there will no longer be the option to wash them.

I have quoted my sources as much as I can do, the information is available, and if you have any information to contradict it let me know.

For now, rest assured that this is but one more in a long string of attempts by the government, on behalf of new car dealers, to get rid of our right to choose... if you don't value that right, there is nothing I can do to help you.

Well, FWIW, I can tell those of you who may be expecting a vehicle in the near future and are worried by this thread, don't be overly concerned unless it is being shipped on a through waybill to Calgary. In the highly unlikely event you do have a container that is Calgary bound, then perhaps you can get it unstuffed in Vancouver instead where cleaning still appears to be an option, and probably will remain so. At the moment it appears to be pure speculation that places like Vancouver will not allow for cleaning.

I just found out that the person we got our vehicles from in Japan had a container cleared yesterday with no problems whatsoever.

While there is obviously reason for concern with this issue, it's also probable that some are also over reacting to the situation and in so doing unduely alarming others who may be waiting for their vehicles at the present time. I'd prefer to wait until we know more about what's going to happen in places like Vancouver that is not based on hearsay before I got too alarmed.

CBSA policy says nothing about soill having to contain contaminants. The Officers are trained that if there is more than 1/2 cup of dirt on the item then it fails, regarless of what is in the dirt. They assume all dirt from anywhere other than Canada contains contaminants. When vehicles are rejected they must be pressure washed. This can be done at the conatiner ports in Vancouver or just over the border in Washington State (if they enter in Seattle and come to Canada in bond through a land border).

Calgary may have different regional policy, which is why this is an issue there. If you are an importer I would suggest contacting the port of Vancouver and asking them what happens when a vehicle in a container fails inspection. They will know what their policy is and be able to tell you. Request it in writing if you need to.

The 15 year rule is a transport Canada rule that has nothing to do with CBSA. CBSA simply does the initial paperwork on behalf of TC and inspects for CFIA requirements. CBSA and CFIA are now one in the same so really it's all CBSA when it comes to the dirt. I doubt CBSA cares whether or not the vehicles are 15 years or older.

Instead of duking it out on a forum why don't you make a call to CBSA and ask them yourselves. You can get the information here: (http://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub ... .html#P005)

Additional requirements
Soil and related matter can carry pests that are harmful to Canadian agriculture. The Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) requires that you wash any sand, soil, earth and plant residue from your passenger and recreational vehicles, including the undercarriage, before you import them. This requirement applies to all used vehicles, regardless of origin. For more information, call the CFIA at one of the telephone numbers listed in the section called "Additional information."

Some countries, including the United States, have requirements that you must meet before you can export a vehicle. Check with the customs authority of the country from which you intend to export the vehicle.

What if I can't import my vehicle?
If you arrive at a CBSA office and your vehicle does not meet the requirements of both the CBSA and Transport Canada, you must either export or destroy your vehicle under the CBSA's supervision. You are responsible for all related costs. In such circumstances, duties and GST may not be refunded.

Remember that it is your responsibility to meet all import requirements. Call the CBSA and Transport Canada (or the RIV) before you attempt to import your vehicle.

Additional information
If you have any questions, contact the CBSA's Border Information Service (BIS) line. This is a 24-hour telephone service that automatically answers all incoming calls and provides general border services information.

Toll-free in Canada: 1-800-461-9999

Outside Canada: 204-983-3500 or 506-636-5064
(long-distance charges will apply)

If you call during regular business hours Monday to Friday (except holidays), from 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. (local time), you can speak directly with an agent by pressing "0" at any time.

You can also visit our Web site at http://www.cbsa.gc.ca.

For more recent policy and technical information about excise tax on vehicles and their air conditioners, call the Canada Revenue Agency at 1-866-330-3304.

For the most recent Transport Canada information about importing vehicles into Canada, contact the following offices:

Vehicles manufactured for sale in the United States
Registrar of Imported Vehicles (RIV)
405 The West Mall
Toronto ON M9C 5K7

Telephone: 1-888-848-8240
(toll free in Canada and the
United States)
416-626-1803 (all other countries)
Fax: 416-626-0366
Web site: http://www.riv.ca

All other vehicles
Road Safety and Motor Vehicle
Regulation Directorate
Transport Canada
Place de Ville, Tower C, 8th floor
330 Sparks Street
Ottawa ON K1A 0N5

Telephone: 1-800-333-0371
(toll free in Canada and
the United States)
613-998-8616 (all other countries)
Fax: 613-998-4831
Web site: http://www.tc.gc.ca

For information about Canadian Food Inspection Agency requirements, contact one of the following Import Service Centres (ISC):

Web site: http://www.inspection.gc.ca

Eastern ISC (Quebec and Atlantic)
7:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. (local time)

Telephone: 1-877-493-0468
(toll-free in Canada and
the United States)
514-493-0468 (all other countries)
Fax: 514-493-4103

Central ISC (Ontario)
7:00 a.m. to 12:00 a.m. (local time)

Telephone: 1-800-835-4486
(toll-free in Canada and
the United States)
416-661-3039 (all other countries)
Fax: 416-661-5767

Western ISC (Prairies and British Columbia)
7:00 a.m. to 12:00 a.m. (local time)
Telephone: 1-888-732-6222
(toll-free in Canada and
the United States)
604-666-9240 (all other countries)
Fax: 604-666-1577

CBSA policy says nothing about soill having to contain contaminants.

CBSA doesn't write the legal policy, they are simply contracted by CFIA to follow THEIR policies, something they are NOT doing.

The Officers are trained that if there is more than 1/2 cup of dirt on the item then it fails,

Good theory, but the vehicles failing recently haven't had ANY actual soil on them, they have had just enough "dirt" so that when an inspector runs his hand along the underside of the car it doesn't come out sparkling clean, it is nowhere near "1/2 cup of dirt"

When vehicles are rejected they must be pressure washed. This can be done at the conatiner ports in Vancouver or just over the border in Washington State (if they enter in Seattle and come to Canada in bond through a land border).

except that the new memo states that they won't be allowed to be washed at all. (we have since learned that this has nothing to do with there being no shop available to do the washing, but simply that CBSA doesn't want to deal with it (the shop currently doing the washing is not closing and will still be around, we just won't be allowed to use it), we also asked what would happen if a new shop was to open up to wash these vehicles and were told "it wouldn't make a difference, vehicles would still have to be exported if they fail, and they WILL fail"

As for the 15 year rule, if you don't think the government in general is trying to stop it, you obviously haven't been paying attention... (and this includes whatever branch they can use, CBSA, CFIA, anyone who will help.)

They may be trying to prove a correlation between mysterious feet in running shoes washing up on shore and Delica's having an inherent weakness allowing them to drop off the loading ramps on BC Ferrys.

(b) the thing is or could be infested or constitutes or could constitute a biological obstacle to the control of a pest that cannot be treated or processed to the extent necessary to ensure that the thing is not a pest or infested or is no longer a biological obstacle to the control of a pest;

(d) failure to do so would or could result in the introduction into Canada, or spread within Canada, of a pest or a biological obstacle to the control of a pest.

Could being the important word. Its highly likely foreign soil could cause a problem thus f(x): dirty=fail. They don't have to prove that it is carrying any contaminents.

foreign soil could cause a problem

That still doesn't solve the problem of failing vehicles with ABSOLUTELY NO FOREIGN SOIL!

All they require is resonable cause to believe that items imported are/have been contaminated for a denial into Canada. This could simply be too many vehicles previously imported from a region or a carrier failing their inspections. It is not the job of the government to ensure that vehicles are clean/fumigated before they are shipped nor is it their responsibility to have facilities to ensure that they are cleaned/fumigated after they enter customs.

I happen to know that vehicle came into Canada with some "passangers". I found leaf insects in the venting and in the carpeting (many invasive seeds/insects can be nearly microscopic). In my opinion this would be enough to stop shipment of these vehicles into the country until such time as the importer(s) provides documentation ensuring that the vehicle is "biologically cleaned" and inspections meet a passing grade here.

Once again just my opinion. I really don't think this policy was created to piss off people who happen to enjoy JDM imports. Although I must say it would suck if all JDMs/importers/carriers in general receive the same treatment. And as for the government disliking imported vehicles entering the country I am quite certain the 15 year rule could be changed or even revoked in an instant if it were really important to them.

the importer(s) provides documentation ensuring that the vehicle is "biologically cleaned" and inspections meet a passing grade here.

This is one angle we are working on, some items are shipped from foreign countries with a certification stating it is clean, it would appear that if we had that certification applied to the vehicles they would have no choice but to accept them as "clean"

This is just one angle being worked on..

I am quite certain the 15 year rule could be changed or even revoked in an instant if it were really important to them.

This has been tried, and (for now) halted (by the hard work of the people at IVOAC)... it isn't important to the government so much as big business, but they have the money to have substantial influence... this issue will be back, it's just a matter of when.

I've been involved in imports / exports of forest products for 16 years.
We face the same issues commonly in our industry both on import and export, and I although anything is possible and there could be something fishy going on, I believe this is quite typical of the arbitrary nature of government agencies to amend and enforce the policies they have been charged with administering. I have come to learn that the various workers within these groups (CFIA most commonly in my business) have virtually no training or expertise, so once management has issued an order requiring interpretation by the officer...they do tend to lean towards a zero tolerance policy and in some cases maybe crossing over the line to a policy of "exclusion". I would argue this is more out of ignorance and/or expedience than anything else.

I call it the "roving eye of Sauron"....and today Sauron is looking at dirt on imported used cars...sad to say.

However, various associations can influence and "guide" the implementation of their policies as well - so any action on the part of the IVOAC is a good think I believe.

its really not that big of a deal here, if your a regular importer you will KNOW that for $70 in Japan at the roro dock and the various container docks, you can get a disinfecting wash done on your vehicle, and other items, I have a van coming over right now that i had powerwashed befor it was driven to the dock, then I paid the $70 fee for it to be gone over the disinfection wash, a ship here was actually delayed from the meticulous inspection done befor letting ONLY the USED vehicles off the ship, had to be inspected befor coming off the ship.... so in Japan that had a ripple effect , the ship there was delayed a few days and ALL the vehicles came off and were put through the wash. took a couple days.
so in the end my van was washed 3 times befor leaving port, once befor it got to the gates, once i paid for the big wash, and the 3rd they insisted it have it again. so for $70 . dont cheap out. do the right thing, I know its a pain. but its $70!!! do it and forget about it.

I for one think its a good idea, we dont need another variation of the pine beatle coming over and setting up camp, YES i know the pine beatle was not the same thing, but its an example of what they are afraid could happen.
I guess it would be more paper work for those buying 20-30 quality vans in one day on 60 second auctions to worry about the big expence of an aditional $70 per. but just have it done, and you will sleep better at night, its easier when you go to clear your vehicle and a Hell of a lot cheaper than dealing with a dirty van when it gets here.
but thats just my $0.02

several of the vehicles that have failed in Calgary WERE cleaned in Japan immediately before entering the container, they were basically as clean as it is possible to make a used vehicle, they still failed. If you are bringing in a vehicle right now, DO NOT clear customs in Calgary, the vehicle WILL fail.