Propane Injection

[sasquatch-hunter]

I saw one website advertising propane injection for Delica. Has anyone here tried it? A friend said that it may run too hot even with only 2 psi. I also wonder if there willbe a mileage increase?

cheers,
seb

[Green1]

it's supposed to give a noticeable mileage increase, better performance and COOL the engine (not overheat it as your friend said)
very few people have posted much in regards to it, I know one person on the UK site ended up with a cracked head shortly after installing his, but generally people figure that the propane injection had nothing to do with that (of course there's no way to be sure)

personally it sounds like too much hassle to bother with, but it could be fun.

[BCDelica]

Don't know who's tried it, but many of us want to. No such thing as too much hassle! First need James to build me a rear bumper with a swing out spare and a propane tank mount. I have collected (all CSA of course) a low pressure regulator (free from the gas man), a 12v solenoid ($40 at Napa), a diode, a pressure gauge (just a crappy tire item) and a selection of orifices from a retired propane guy. Then I need professional help (in more then a few ways) to help with the install, cause I don't want to make a single mistake with explosive gas (veggie is just so nice an' safe!). The toughest hurdle is where to install the propane tank!

I think Crusher has installed a system in a Delica, and I know many of us would like to see pictures! This has been posted a few times before but it a good, basic introduction - http://www.mrsharkey.com/lpg.htm

Regards

[MardyDelica]

Hi, i dont think ths propane conversion will work for delica it will just give you a headache, i dont think it will give you more horsepower,
propane has higher octane, but its too hot on the cyl head, Deli head is aluminum, i believed the delica head will be toast when you install them, all this will give you is a headache.i have a friend which install brand new propane conversion to his 1 ton chevy van. & on the first 6 month is o.k. but after that all the problem goes around, he regret of doing it.
spend lots of money but still dont work well. in short if not factory conversion i mean like dealer like ford & other car manfacturer. who design & study this all will be o.k. temporary. hope you guys will think twice about this propane conversion, convert it to Vege oil or using bio-diesel is way far better, dont try to go with the big headache. not worth. just enjoy your delica now without headache
Cheers to everybody
Mardy

[Adam]

Ahh, I'm pretty sure that they not talking about replacing diesel fuel with propane, but injecting a bit of propane into the combustion chamber to improve the diesel burning.

Unlike the gasoline conversion, where the motor runs on propane only, the setups for diesels inject only a percentage of propane into the air intake tract, leaving the diesel or WVO as the staple diet for the motor. Also in contrast to the gas-engine conversions, which are less efficient than when run on gasoline, an propane-injected diesel produces much more power and gets better mileage

[MardyDelica]

i know they are not talking about changing it to propane conversion totally from diesel thru propane. as they only want to have Propane direct injection, its just its not been design for this diesel injection. just example is that no car manufacturer want to do this cause it just cause problem as they design , study & engineer this conversion before they put it in each car. so anybody could do it, but in the long run it will create a problem for your deli. to many modification towards the engine for delica wont make it much better. its just this is my point of view on my opinion, i wont do it,
i am happy with my deli without any problem at all .
cheers:

[Green1]

the manufacturers don't do it because it's extra complication for the end owner, how many people want to fill up with both diesel AND propane? Also no manufacturer seems to use propane for ANYTHING from the factory, yet there are lots of people that convert vehicles to propane power with no ill effects, just because Mitsubishi doesn't do it doesn't mean it's bad to try.

Propane injection is generally seen as very low risk, it's often described as Nitro for diesels, but unlike Nitro which causes overheating, propane actually cools the engine. The only drawbacks I've heard really are the following:
- having 2 fuels to manage at the gas station
- expense and hassle of the install/maintenance
- inability to park in parkades with propane on board (not like Delicas spend much time in parkades anyway...)

if you're willing to put up with those 3, then it's probably worth trying.

[sasquatch-hunter]

Here is the link:

http://www.luxuryimports.ca/products/pr ... ection.php

[sasquatch-hunter]

The actual article:

What is Propane Injection?

Propane Injection is where Propane vapor is introduced into the intake of the diesel engine to help burn the wasted fuel. it acts like a catalyst with the diesel to help burn the fuel completely.

What are the advantages of Propane Injection?

Propane Injection (PI) helps to burn all the fuel thus you have a cleaner burning engine. a normal diesel engine only burns 75% of the fuel so there is a waste of fuel as well this is were most of the black smoke comes from, unburnt fuel. will this system get rid of all the black smoke? No. but it helps to reduce most of it. under full throttle you might still see a small amount of smoke. there are other factors that also come into play causing black smoke from a diesel. PI also drops the Exhaust Gas Temperatures by 50 F - 100 F. this also helps the longevity of the engine. PI also boosts the horse power of the engine by at least 25% but not at the risk of detrimental engine wear. the horse power increase is substantial making hill climbs a breeze and towing a reality and a pleasure. even around the city and on the highway you will notice a quieter more powerful engine. Because the engine runs cleaner you will also find a side benefit of a bit cleaner oil at oil changes. PI will also increase the fuel mileage of the engine by 1-3 mpg (or even more) depending on driving style.

Will Propane Injection hurt my engine?

No, as long as you leave the settings as they are at time of install. the PI injects 2 cfm of propane into the engine to help burn the unburned and wasted fuel. We are not trying to run the truck on Propane just introducing a very small quantity to help combustion.

How long does a tank of Propane last?

This depends on driving style. on the smaller 2.4L a green camping bottle should last 4 tanks of fuel. on the bigger 4L-4.2L a 20 lb bottle of propane should last 4 tanks of fuel.

How does this Propane Injection system compare to systems like that from Bully Dog and other manufacturers?

Variable Rate Propane Injection comes on smooth and is comfortable, effortless and safe. We get the kits designed to start injecting at 2 psi boost. this allows the engine to begin producing horse power and also allows the turbo to start spooling before the propane is injected. this makes for a very drivable unit. there is no sudden load introduced to the engine at any time so the load factor is minimized which will also give longer engine life.

Benefits of Propane Injection:

Simplicity is the key to getting the performance you want out of your truck.
Simple patent pending design means: No mixers, sensors, evaporators, or switches to hassle with or adjust.
Easy installation and maintenance.
Cleaner burning fuel.
Better fuel economy.
Increased torque and horsepower for towing
Applications:

The Variable Rate Propane Injection Kit is the perfect addition for your turbo diesel engine to gain horsepower at an affordable price.
The Variable Rate is boost pressure activated, injecting propane into the engine as the boost pressure of the engine increases producing a throttle control, that you will definitely feel behind the wheel.
Safety features such as: Power switch inside the cab so driver has full control of turning the system on and off. Fuel lock off valve, stops the flow of propane unless the vehicle ignition and system is on.
An adjustable orifice allows you to change flow rates from towing to performance effortlessly in minutes.
Variable flow rate delivers smooth, steadily increasing power, proportionate to the boost pressure.
We are constantly striving to improve both our customers satisfaction and enjoyment in buying and driving a vehicle bought from Luxury Imports. We truly are a step above the competition both in our product and our after sales customer service.

[BCDelica]

Still being determined to have a tri-power Deli, I came across these stats on a propane injection companies website. Always found the Defender a good comparison to the Deli in vehicle weight and engiine displacement.

The following figures are based on our own 1998 Land Rover Defender 300Tdi (2.5l turbo diesel). This vehicle had covered 119,000km when the Diesel Gas system was fitted. The standard fuel tank holds 79.5l usable (from the workshop manual specifications). A 28l LPG tank was fitted. For our consumption tests, the tank was never run to dead empty. The vehicle has not been modified from standard in any way.
We have used conservative average prices of $1.20 for diesel fuel and $0.40 for LPG fuel.

On diesel fuel only (pre-Diesel/Gas) this Land Rover Defender returned 700km on average per tank, resulting in average fuel consumption figures of 10.7 litres/100km.

700km for 75 litres = 10.7l/100km Cost to refill 75 litres @ $1.20 = $90
This means $90 buys 700km on diesel only

Now, with the 28l of LPG, and 75l of diesel, the Defender now consistently returns just over 1000km. This is an increase of 300km over diesel only.

First, let's calculate what an extra 300km on diesel only would cost:

300km @ 10.7l/100km = 32.10 litres required 32.10 litres@ $1.20 = $38.52

On diesel only, another 300km would cost $38.52 (ignoring the need to refuel or fit long range tanks). This means to travel 1000km on diesel only would cost:

700km @ $90.00 + 300km @ $38.52 = $128.52

So 1000km costs $128.52. We'll come back to that figure. Let's look at the cost to travel 1000km (our new range) on Diesel/Gas:

75l diesel @ $1.20 = 90.00 + 28l LPG @ $0.40 = 11.20 So diesel + LPG = $101.20

So, the nett saving per tank would be $128.52 - $101.20 = $27.32

This translates into a nett saving of just over 21% per tank!

So you can see that we have travelled another 300km for only $11.20, and saved $27.32 in doing so. This doesn't take into account the extra power (the dyno showed 34% at this setting), which means you would have covered the 1000km quicker. Not to mention quieter, cleaner and with less wear on the engine as well!
Vehicles

[Jester]

it sounds like a neat idea, but also an unnecessary complication and a potential hazard.
I'm more for 'funky shit' but the more complicated a system, the more possibilities for failure (K.I.S.S. right ).

Also, I'd like to see some actual data confirming the improved economy, since it seems like whatever we'd save in diesel, we'd burn in propane anyways.

If anyone actually installs one, please post some hard data once you've gathered it.

[delicat]

Don't know about data but I know lots and lots of taxi have them installed in Australia. I don't think they'd use it if it wasn't reliable...not taxi anyway.

Might be something to post on the Aussie site?

[Jester]

Don't know about data but I know lots and lots of taxi have them installed in Australia. I don't think they'd use it if it wasn't reliable...not taxi anyway.

Might be something to post on the Aussie site?

I think you're talking about a full time LPG conversion. THey drive either LPG or switch back to Diesel, but don't use the propane system for fuel enriching.
but I could be wrong...

[delicat]

My wrong, it's a dual system... Still interesting though.

[Jester]

I think it'd be a very interesting experiment to put one of those propane injection systems on a WVO Deli.
I'm very curious about the results.
It seems possible that the mileage would improve to BETTER than straight Dino juice...
I'm not gonna do it myself but please if someone goes for it, post some hard stats.


btw it'd be nice to be able to afford maybe a 2d Pajero or something like that, a secondary vehicle to experiment on..