Hello...help me convince the wife!!

[zu!]

Hi folks:

I've been interested in Delica's since the good old days when the National cycling team had one as their support vehicle. This was in Malaysia. It was the coolest van I'd ever seen, 4WD, white with huge red Ralli-Art sticker on it. It went everywhere.

Anyways, fast-forward to today. We live in Canada. Bought first a Dodge Caravan, cos hey...everyone seems to be driving one, must be good. What did we know...new immigrants and all. Geez. Whatta failure. Well, next, decided we needed a larger 8-seater for when the in-laws show up. Heck, it needed to tow a utility trailer loaded with firewood occasionally too. Oh about 2,000 pounds worth (Guessing here, as I've never weighed the load). So we got your typical NA hulk of serious metal. Man, that thing can haul. But geez...that thing can drink too! I really want to get rid of it.

So...the bestest most efficient vehicle I've ever owned is my old 84 Merc. I really like that one. So, nobody needs to convert me onto old diesels. I KNOW they work, and well. In fact, I was extolling the virtues of the delica to two of my hunting buddies over the campfire last year (yes, I've been lurking THAT long) and wouldn't you know it, they each ordered an L400!

The problem is, my mechanic is dead set against Delica's. In his opinion. They're just no-good and will break down on you. Parts are impossible to find. Very expensive to replace. Long waits for parts etc. He told me horror stories of people he knew that went out to the sticks, and had to leave their vehicles there when the vehicle broke and parts could not be found. etc etc etc.

Now my mechanic is a really good guy. And my wife really trusts his opinion (I do too, but in this case, I can't put my finger on it). So the only obstacle now is the wife. How do I convince her that these Delica's are pretty awesom machines that well, are about as reliable as my old Merc. Basic use of vehicle will be as general family hauler, firewood hauler (Class 2 hitch?), and capable off-road vehicle for hunting expeditions (so able to sleep in, keep supplies and carry substantial cargo, as in nice organic moose, deer, bear etc).

Sorry for the long first post, but I wanted to put in as much detail as possible.

[nxski]

In terms of reliability you can't beat Japanese and you can't do much worse than American (for the most part that is)
In comparison to a merc the only thing I can think of as the main difference in quality is that the delicashop trim won't fall off.

[zu!]

Thanks for the reply. What about parts though? Merc parts are really cheap and plentiful. How about regular maintenance items things that break often etc. Are these things costly to maintain?

[nxski]

You live in the Lower Mainland so parts are very easy to get as there are many suppliers. I've found that parts are about as expensive as they were for my civic and much cheaper than BMW parts (not sure about Mercs) The vehicle is really easy to work on yourself too so you can save lots of money that way as well.
Regular maintenance is pretty minimal, if you take it into CVI they have some great package deals.

[jessef]

There are two very different models.

A search can pretty much answer your questions very simply.

L300 (boxy style cab-over) with a 2.5L 4D56T engine. This van is tough as nails.
Advantages : a LOT of cargo room, short vehicle length for amount of room, good little motor, excellent views from driver/passenger seats

Disadvantages : noiser than newer models. short wheel base can get squirrely in slick conditions. engine's weak spot is the head and timing belt. Providing you have a good cooling system (rad/hoses/thermostat/waterpump) and the timing was done with OEM parts and done right, then it will last so long as you drive it accordingly. Give it too much gas for too long up a hill and you will crack the head. Install a pyro gauge to adjust your driving to extend the life of the engine. Doesn't tow well - short wheel base / small motor.

L400 (minivan on steroids look) with a 2.8L 4M40 engine.
Advantages : More comfortable inside to drive/passengers. has an AWD all-wheel drive mode that is amazing on slick/snow/icy roads. 4M40 engine is powerful, good enough to tow, has timing chain instead of timing belt and a good cooling system. Drivetrain is bigger than the L300. Larger diffs, axles, etc..

Disadvantages : frame is thin in parts and prone to rusting compared to the L300 tough as nails frame. That's really the only disadvantage aside from looks. Everything else, it wins on. A short wheel base L400 has less cargo (not by much) than the L300. A long wheel base L400 has MORE room than both SWB and L300.

There are a variety of flavours of both L300 and L400's. It is personal preference.

For strictly reliability and convenience, L400 wins. For looks and durability, L300 wins (for some).

Parts are simple. Mitsubishi Montero is the north american equivalent so parts are a plenty in local shops. Sometimes more so than new Japan/Domestic vehicles.

The engines are simple indirect injection diesels. Any competent mechanic can work on them. It's honestly that simple.


If someone doesn't want to work on them, it's their own biased opinion on heresay.

[nxski]

For strictly reliability and convenience, L400 wins. For looks and durability, L300 wins (for some).

I agree with everything else but in terms of convenience it depends on what you're doing. If you want lots of interior room and still be able to park in a tight parking spot in the city (for 'urban camping') then the L300 wins I don't know who else does this but apart from looks and visibility it was the deciding factor for me. I have to admit though, if this isn't a concern and you're not looking at doing anything too extreme with 4X4 then the LWB L400 would be my choice as the interior is extremely comfortable and has lots of cool features. I've only driven a gas L400 though, it had a lot more power than the L300 but I didn't fall in love the way I did with the L300. Even if you have your mind set on a specific model I would go and test drive the others just to make sure...

[zu!]

Parts are simple. Mitsubishi Montero is the north american equivalent so parts are a plenty in local shops. Sometimes more so than new Japan/Domestic vehicles.

The engines are simple indirect injection diesels. Any competent mechanic can work on them. It's honestly that simple.

If someone doesn't want to work on them, it's their own biased opinion on heresay.

Thanks for your input jfarsang. I was seriously worried about parts. As I'm sure you-all know, as the car gets older more and more stuff needs replacing. So parts availability was a major thing for me. The biased opinion based on hearsay could very well be what its all about! I do a fair bit of my own wrench work on my Merc, so I have a rudimentary knowledge of the diesel injection system. Indirect injection is what I believe my old Merc has as well and those pumps are pretty much rock-solid.

As for difference between the two, thanks too for that summary. I've read so much that it can get quite confusing. Its easy to get muddled up with which one has which features and after awhile, they all sound the same! Yeah, I guess I will be having to test drive first! More importantly, the wife will have to go along with it.

Personally, I like the L300 looks. It just has that space-buggy look to it that I never quite fell out of love since my boyhood.
--
NXSKI, if its easy to wrench on, then its really my kind of car. One of the reasons I love my Merc is because its easy to wrench on. Whereas just changing the damned spark plugs in my Astro Van is an almighty pain that requires removing almost half the bloody dash board thing! And when I had to change the alternator on that...boy. I can't believe they built the car that way. Anyway, good to know that the parts are Civic-priced. Being a real popular car, that must mean its cheap to maintain.

As to what the vehicle will be doing...well, mostly hauling the children around. Wife will be driving most of the time. However, every year it will need to two a couple of loads of firewood. And every year I hope to take it out to the backcountry with me for hunting / fishing. This one is critical and its one of the main reasons (apart frm gas) that I'm giving up my "American Muscle-Van". Sometimes the roads are snowy and often times there are deep ruts. Bad logging roads that lead to nowhere lead to some of the best campsites. It will need to sleep two or sometimes three if my daughter tags along. From the pictures forum, I see that many members go to such places. So looks like L300 is the one that's better for serious off-road stuff like this?

[nxski]

the L400 SWB is also very good for the 'rough stuff' although for 3 people I would feel a bit cramped. I've slept 3 in my L300 quite easily.

The one thing I've done that wasn't all that easy was removing the alternator, but for the most part the work is quite easy and there are lots of "How to's" on this site that will get even the most amateur handyman through pretty much any job.

[jessef]

Both are equally capable offroad.

Both have lots of room inside.

L300 looks more 'unique' in stock form. That all changes when you lift and modify an L400. Then it starts to look like something out of a modern Mad Max.

L400 long wheel base is by far and large 'the' best for more than 2 people. It has a LOT more room inside than the L300 and there is no engine hump. You can walk from the front of the van to the back. This is not possible in an L300 unless you are 2 feet tall.

You have to test drive both to really know the difference.

There is one thing. Once you feel the difference between the 2.5 and 2.8 engines, you will be hard pressed to go with the 2.5, especially with the timing belt (breaks and skips = engine go boom) and timing chain (don't worry about it for at least 300,000 km's).

And don't discount all wheel drive. In a vehicle this size, AWD is a HUGE feature in our westcoast winters.

Both L300 and L400 can be ugly or look amazing depending on who's eyes you're looking through.

My last two rigs that are being generously driven by longterm forum members.

[zu!]

Wow! Really nice rides, thanks for sharing your perspectives. You're right nothing like a test driv e to feel it. So one is 4x4 and the other AWD?

[jessef]

4x4 modes :

L300 -
2H - rear wheel drive - all surfaces
4H - 4x4 (part time 4-wheel drive) - only slick surfaces / offroad
4L - 4x4 (part time 4-wheel drive low range) - only slick surfaces / offroad

L400 -
2H - rear wheel drive - all surfaces
4H - all wheel drive - all surfaces (wet/dry/etc..) like subaru/syncro/quattro
4HL - 4x4 (part time 4-wheel drive) - only slick surfaces / offroad
4Llc - 4x4 (part time 4-wheel drive low range) - only slick surfaces / offroad

L300 is a basic 4x4 vehicle with 2 wheel drive and 4 wheel drive.

L400 is the same with an added viscous coupler inside the transfer case that enables the driver to shift on the fly while driving between 2 wheel drive and all wheel drive modes.

[thedjjack]

your mechanics is not educated. The only thing that is hard about getting parts is you cannot just phone up NAPA and have them drop them off. But all the parts are in North America and you can have them in in a day or two most.

Neither engine is the Mercedes engine (That is arguably the best diesel ever made cast block, cast head, big oil coolerm simple injection, chain driven cam).

The L400 does have a better engine and more power. Personally, I do not like transfer cases with full time.

L400 more electronic crap, and airbags, and anti-lock brakes which I have no interest in on my trucks. Most people the L400 is a better choice.

[jessef]

your mechanics is not educated. The only thing that is hard about getting parts is you cannot just phone up NAPA and have them drop them off. But all the parts are in North America and you can have them in in a day or two most.

Neither engine is the Mercedes engine (That is arguably the best diesel ever made cast block, cast head, big oil coolerm simple injection, chain driven cam).

The L400 does have a better engine and more power. Personally, I do not like transfer cases with full time.

L400 more electronic crap, and airbags, and anti-lock brakes which I have no interest in on my trucks. Most people the L400 is a better choice.

The transfer case in the L400 is tough. The 'full-time awd' doesn't encompass the whole case. It's just a simple inline viscous coupler.

The 'electronic' crap is the same in both L300 and L400. Most L400's don't come with anti lock brakes. In fact, the L400's come with 4 wheel disc brakes and twin piston in the fronts (what I converted my L300's to). And most don't have airbags as well. Just the loaded royal and some super models.

[nxski]

You switched the drums out for discs? how easy of a swap was that?

[jessef]

front single piston calipers (L300) swap to twin piston calipers (L400)

With everything said, my favorite Delica will always be Turtle (L300 in the pic above).

L400 is very comfortable on long distance drives and rides smooth offroad compared to L300.

It is personal preference as both have very different comparisons.