pre- vs. post-facelift Star Wagon differences, options

[DR1665]

thehedjjack has me thinking about pre-facelift models lately. As I'm striking out in pursuit of a Delica - my first, and likely only - I want to consider all the options. Much to Jack's chagrin, the improved light output and cheaper cost of the square headlights are not primary concerns. I'm honestly dealing with book-by-the-cover issues, starting to wonder if I really do prefer the look of the facelift to the pre-facelift Star Wagons.

Can I trouble you guys - whom I consider the experts, by the way - I'm not on any other Delica boards - to give me a primer on the differences - cosmetic and otherwise - between the pre- and post-facelift Star Wagons? Super Exceed, if it makes any difference. Basically, aside from the more futuristic look of the facelifted models (and better headlights on the pre-facelifted), are there any other reasons for choosing one over the other?

Appreciate your helping a future member of the family out in the early days. Thanks.

[TieMyShoe]

I hated my head lights... until I actually pulled the bulbs out to find they were only 30W Sylvania H3s.... Picked up a set of Hella 100w bulbs from lordco for 40 bucks re adjusted them so the beam is slightly more left justified then they originally were and now they are just fine.

[Overlanderjay]

Okay so your first choice is whether you want a low roof P25 or a high roof P35, if you get a high roof your next choice is a crystal light roof or no roof windows. The low roof model can have a moon roof window .The next choice is whether you want captains chairs middle passenger seat or flip flop bench seat. They all come with a rear bench seat. The differences between a Exceed ,super exceed and regualer model are not consistant, i've never seen two Delis with the same features ,i think when you bought your Deli in Japan you got a checklist handed to you and you checked off the acessiories that you wanted. The engine choice is the same for all years Diesel or Gas. But the 93 and up diesel has a water cooled turbo. Also you can have a automatic or manuel transmission. Hope this answers some of your Questions Cheers Overlander Jay

[DR1665]

Thanks, Jay. Plenty of options there!

Are the vans otherwise mechanically identical? From the driver's seat, are there any differences?

Water cooled turbo should be an easy upgrade, right? Is it like the setup on a 4g63? Just a simple bypass on the water pipe across the front of the engine, maybe?

I'm gonna research turbo specs, but I wonder if I could bolt up a 14b or t25 to get water cooling...

[TardisDeli]

Hi Brian. welcome to the cult.

(NOTE when I started this reply, i wrote comparing your USA model to our 4wd model ... then i realized you meant to compare pre 1991 with post 1991 japanese L300... so keep reading).

From the drivers seat both usa and japanese look quite similar. Your van was marketed in USA as You Deserve a Comfortable Commute, and emphasized the number of coffee holders. Ours has 4 wheel drive, and needs the turbo counter the extra weight of all that mechanical gear, during acceleration, all the 2 wheel drives including yours and pick up trucks usually have no turbo. I heard one person who had a water turbo to replace their air turbo in a japanese L300, not sure how plug and play the switch was but one could ask Butch at CVI in Richmond. The japanese L300 can run without a turbo, but is very gutless on hills.

To compare your american vehicle with the Japanese L300 is misleading, they look alike but the actual frame and body parts are NOT THE SAME. Glen at Coombs Country autos on vancouver island once converted a usa top onto a japanese frame, and found the 2 frames not the same size, ie no place to bolt engine nor transmission as different frames, so problems just continue from there as one must fabricate new frame parts etc.

Now comparing just the japanese delica, pre 1991 and post 1991....

The date change for the models is a bit vague, they don't have a full change as of x day, so we usually go by the square headlights as the most reliable guide. The might be a different model number embedded in the VIN, but I have not heard that. The accesories vary, again no specific date that model changes occur, that is why Jay mentioned the Menu of Options seems to be the rule, rather than a model year option change. There is another square headlight model in chilliwack, long time owner who has done various mods, but those mods are for expert mechanics to do.

I would say your best modification on any delica would be to install a pyrometer to measure engine exhaust gas temperatures, as our teensy but tough engines HATE to overheat, and usually crack at the same spot near the 2nd cylinder. I got my first L300 in 1997, and refused to do mods (modifications) because "those highly trained japanese team of engineers built a perfect vehicle which we all love, then you buy one and after a coupla beers think you know more than the engineers and start cutting holes and otherwise desecrating perfection". It is easy to overheat just going up hills ie highway by Lake Sammish. Might not die then, but crack worsens each time till one day just innocently ooops the coolant gets into the fuel mix...splat dead.

The list jay gave you is good. just decide what you can live with or without, do not get fussy, just be glad to get it. The square-light models i have seen were all very VERY basic, such as manual transmission, window winder handles, no air conditioning, but with 4 wheel drive. whereas the later models were luxury (power everything and auto transmission) with auto windows etc. So the only things you really should focus on is 4 wheel drive or not (rare in BC to not have 4wd), and manual vs auto transmission or gas vs diesel (again the frame is different so not plug and play to fit). Types of seats, types of windows, colour, ladder are just too difficult to pick. Remember there are very few square-lights in canada, and very few in japan (as most people sell cars in Japan in year 15 due to extra penalties and insurance on older than 15 year old vehicles), so if you get one that isnt rusted to death just be satisfied.

I am often in Blaine to grocery shop. Bellingham is just a bit further, and the diesel is cheaper than blaine. Let me know if you want to meet. You can crawl over my 1997 L300.

cheers christine. you can send an email via PM also.

[DR1665]

Thanks, Christine. Sincerely appreciate the detailed reply!

You are correct in that I'm here because I want the JDM goodness - and because of exceptional individuals like Falco, Ari, and my buddy JPL.

I'll definitely be fitting EGT and boost gauges shortly after getting the van home. Sadly, that's still a year or so out, but I've already skimmed through about 30 pages of tech threads on this forum, so I think I should be good to go by that time.

It's proving a bit difficult to find specs on the exact turbocharger installed on the Star Wagons. Guess it's moot, as the more I think about it, the more I want to leave the thing stock as long as possible. Maybe, down the road, I'll upgrade the exhaust, drop in a smallish intercooler, maybe play with a boost controller, but only because driving a 100hp, 2.6L Pajero for about two years now, I hate having to grab 4th and floor it to stay above 45mph (70kph) on hills.

Definitely want turbodiesel.
Definitely want 4WD.
Definitely want Crystal Roof.
Definitely want PW/PL/AC.

Really want - but have begun to second guess myself (thanks thehedjjack) - facelifted 1990 with the projector headlights (and more substantial bull bar - that frontal offset crash test video is damning). Beyond that, I guess manual or automatic gearbox, color, and captain's chairs will just fall into the color category.

I'd love to drop by for a tour, but you're a bit of a drive. 1,500+ miles, to be exact. :) Later this summer (15-17 August), I'll be going to the DSM/Evo/GTR Shootout in Ohio and have begun toying with the idea of flying into Detroit so I can take the long way 'round via Sarnia and Toronto to visit friends (and meet my importer in person). Will definitely be looking to meet some other Delica owners while I'm out that way.

Thanks again for all the info. People like you are why I'm here more than any other Delica forum.

[thedjjack]

watch for rust in the crystal light roofs and careful if you break one as they are $$$ to fix....

google crystal light rust on this form to see what to watch out for or get a discount for buying...

If you do upgrade the light bulbs in the new front make sure to put a relay in or get a second mortgage to purchase new combi switches (light switch)...

[Erich]

I just happened across this. I am fairly new to my Delica, which is a 1987 P25W. It is the square headlamp model. It is the low roof, with electric sunroof, captain's chairs and manual winders on the front. air-conditioned. I have heard from Glen at Coombs that the water-cooled turbos are a little less reliable. The main thing is to not drive the brick too hard. I had a '70 LR 88 and it was very similar in terms of speed and power. Imagine you are driving farm equipment(very cushy farm equipment) on public highways. If you need any help, advice getting one into the USA, let me know. I did it, and aside from some customs hassles, it was fairly easy. No one liked the 7 digit VIN, but that is what it has.

Erich