Wheel came off... Please read!

[Jonny5ive]

My wheels have been popping off my van while driving...

November 2013 I had new Tires and Brakes put on my van (L300 '92).

The morning after picking up the van from the Garage, BOOM! My front left wheel came flying off into traffic.
Yes, straight up popped off the bolts, bounded into the passenger door as it made it's way through a gap of oncoming cars, directly in front of a full bus shelter (eyes literally fixed on my tire as it rolled past them). My van dropped like a limp pony on wounded knee and skidded to a halt 15 feet away.

Needless to say, it sucked. It was towed to the garage and promptly fixed. The garage took responsibility and sorted me out as best as they can, so I won't mention their name.

Now, today, I was driving along and the wheel lock hubcap popped off. I turned around and picked it up in traffic... then cut through a residential area, back on to a main road and Boom, my rear left wheel popped off the bolts and rolled along in the wheel well for about 15 feet as I pulled over.

So... twice in 6 months my wheels have literally popped off. Both without warning (except the hub popping off 5 minutes before today).

The first time it happened, it seemed pretty damn obvious that it was the garage not bolting things properly. The garage did not avoid responsibility. They were shocked and embarrassed, but dealt with it. I still use them.
After they repaired the wheel, the door and the drum they walked me through the work they did. They also ensured all the bolts were properly torqued, I saw them do it.

At this point, we have a mystery that I need to solve.

My van is at the garage right now... this time there didn't appear to be any damage. The drum slipped and that will need fussing with, but other wise, new bolts and the van should be up and running.

Anyone have any insights as to why this might be happening? Have any of you experienced anything like this? Any mechanics have theories?

[FalcoColumbarius]

One: Your lug nuts should be torqued to 100 ft lbs.
Two: You say the hub cap came off just before the wheel came off? Was it the same wheel? If so I'd check your hubs more often 'cause that strikes me as someone was loosening them off ~ you need to remove the hub cap in order to get a socket onto the lug nuts.

Another possibility, and this is if you have the aluminium alloy rims, is they were not torqued enough and being aluminium rims the nuts can vibrate loose. This is why big rigs have those plastic arrow thingys under the lug nuts ~ so it's obvious if a nut is loosening off, as the arrow starts pointing in a different direction.

Falco.

[Jonny5ive]

Interesting...

I drove 300k yesterday with my kids on a road trip to Coombs with no issues at all.

Then today after driving into town, got a haircut (parked for 1.5hrs)... maybe 5k total. No indication, no bumpiness or warning at all, just the noise of a hubcap bouncing down the road. I turned and picked it up then 5 mins later the wheel made a weird noise and I pulled over to find my wheel stuck in the wheel well.

The wheels are Aluminum. Factory. I'll be looking into the lug locks.

Still, it seems odd that the hub was still on after the 300k trip? It should take a lot longer to loosen the nuts then 5mins...

[Big-Bird]

There have been cases where the wheel nuts (aka acorns) are damaged and they back off on their own. I hqd a friend with a new off the lot Dodge Ram 2500.....the acorns were coming loose after very short durations. He didn't lose a wheel but it came close a couple of times. The dealer didn't know what to do.

He popped into a Fountain Tire and they suggested changing all the acorns. He hasn't any issues since the fix. what style of acorn do you have on your delica? perhaps they are worn, dirty, have aluminum build up in the contact surface?

scary for sure.

[Jonny5ive]

Heres an update...

So, it's still a mystery. I've contacted the local PD and filed a report. Both the garage and I figure that even though tampering is highly unlikely, the possibility is scary enough to warrant a police report. I can't imagine someone being so psychotic to endanger my life, my family (including 4 kids) or the general public... it's just does not seem likely. Besides, my crossover SUV hasn't had any issues and it's a newer vehicle and is always parked beside my van.

However, we're installing locking nuts on all 4 wheels to eliminate the tampering question.

I appreciate the feedback as any thoughts are helpful. Since these 2 issues happened after the wheels were removed 7 months ago it seems reasonable that something must be going on mechanically. I've owned the van since 2008 and I've had zero issue with the wheels before the new tires were put on.

Aluminium alloy wheels & aluminum dust, older nuts, improper tightening, tiny gaps or spaces between the wheel and drum... tampering... all these issues have been considered. We are even looking into the arrow things for smaller vehicles (which don't seem to exist).

Otherwise, it's just not clear what is going on. Daily inspections and vigilance will be the new paradigm...

[Firesong]

I lost a wheel in the winter on the l300. Apparently all it takes is one or two and it can cause the rest to loosen. The other thing I was told was to not use a lubricant or oil based thread prep which can cause then to loosen with use. I just check mine every month now.

[thelazygreenfox]

A few years ago one of our local deli drivers forgot to tighten his lug nuts. When his oversize steel wheel did come off (5 min of driving) it did mucho damage to a small car and he was charged by the police with an insurance increase too. He really was lucky he didn't kill the lady driving the car his wheel hit.

You are so lucky nothing happened to you or you family or others around. Good luck and a smart idea to get locking lug nuts. My van is parked inside at night but i may get LLN's too.
TLGF
Wayne

[FalcoColumbarius]

Regarding potential tampering issues ~ When I first got my wagon I immediately purchased locking lugs for the wheels. Originally I was concerned about someone nicking my mags for the aluminium content or something. For the first week I parked on the street and one morning I came out and found five of the lug nuts on my front right wheel had been loosened off (apart from the lock nut) and I mean loosened off so I could see the threads of the studs, yet the lug nuts were still on the studs. This is one reason why I'm a little weary about these sudden loosening of lug nut stories. Apparently there are people who don't like our wagons and think we should be more "patriotic" and buy a Ford, to such a degree that they are prepared to create an accident to prove their point. I have had people come up to my face and tell me that it's people like me that have caused the economic disaster that North America is experiencing by buying these RHD vehicles ~ or my favourite: "Yer steering wheel's on the wrong side." There was a post in Summer of 2012 that involved lug nuts that mysteriously loosened off overnight: http://www.delica.ca/forum/rolled-my-va ... 13502.html

Regarding the plastic arrows, I don't think they make them for the Delica, 'though I imagine they could be home fabricated, albeit a tight fit. It's possible to over tighten lug nuts but 100 ft lbs is good to go.

Falco.

[Jonny5ive]

This whole thing freaks me out.

I have my van back from the garage. Every little bump on the road and I cringe.

I have to admit that the idea of tampering still seems so far fetched, yet I can't rule it out.
The cop said that this would be an example of public mischief. In cases like this there is generally no thought to the public in terms of safety. We've been super lucky that no one was hurt.

We replaced the fallen wheel with my spare, which is the same rim. Eliminating the possibility that the wheel is cursed.
All new lugs including one locking nut on each wheel.

I do a pre-trip inspection on my work truck everyday... so I'll get in the habit of pre-tripping my van too.

I'm hoping that I start to trust my ride again.

[Zeroduty]

Installing wheel locks is not a solution if these are coming loose by themselves. The lock nut just stops someone from tampering with it. Even with a lock they could still loosen 2 or 3 nuts and you could lose a wheel. My guess would be that the installer did not use a mechanical torque wrench to check his work. If his impact wrench is getting weak, either air or cordless, the nuts will not be sufficently tightened. Lots of places do not take the time to verify their work. I have a couple of different cordless impact drivers and they do not put out the torque that they advertise.
Vern

[Jonny5ive]

In the case of the November issue, I would say that it was likely an issue with the garage. However, they fixed it all up and changed the way they do business. They're good people and no one was hurt... they've been in business for a long time too...

As for the lock nuts, they aren't an end all solution... but they will hopefully deter some, and I'll be inspecting regularly.

Basically, if you lose a wheel once with a full family in your van you get a little freaked out. If you lose a second wheel, you are down right nervous. And I am not a nervous type, far from it.

So, in order to start to re-trust my van, I'm going to do whatever I can think of. At this point I'm feeling more confident with the measures we've taken.

[ealanm]

One suggestion to check:

We recently had a situation like this at the race track -- a car who's wheels just wouldn't stay on. In that case, the problem was that the wheels used tapered style nuts and either the wheels or the batch of nuts was machined to the wrong angle. Sorry, I can't remember if it was the wheels or the nuts that were wrong.

Tapered nuts (and countersunk screws) are self-locking, if the angles match. But if the angles are wrong they won't stay tight no matter what you do.

[Shaun Van Ramen]

Being here quite frequently it seems that several people have had their wheel/s suddenly decide to go on vacation. I check mine periodically and have yet to find an issue (I won't stop checking).
But over the winter I had my wheels rotated. The right front wheel had two severally striped lugs. I was able to get them replace which leads me on to this thought...

Every time I get my wheels worked on, no impact driver/air gun please. Especially when putting them on. And I always request 100-105 Ft. lb.
I may be wrong but I've seen it just often enough that an impact driver does more damage than good to nuts and bolts.

[yojimbo]

As Shaun says, check the wheel stud condition. The tapered system is fine if the angles match and they dont get any play, but _any_ play and they will loosen off, locking nuts or not. I had a wheel come off my landy and overtake us, it was kind of amusing until it went off downhill and crossed to the opposite lane, then I got very concerned for oncoming vehicles, it was late, and luckily no one else was on the road, a car overtook us, watched where the wheel went and came back to tell us it was all ok, which was nice. I actually put it down to me not having removed the wheels since i put them on, and they were secondhand steels, and a thin layer of surface rust on the contact point fell out and the play was introduced and wobbling unwound them. If you want secure wheels use the square section style wheels and nuts like on paj mk1, I have them and have enough trouble getting the wheels off and on normally as they are practically an interference fit!

FWIW, my local tyre place, and the only one I will use, use an airgun or impact battery driver to put the wheels on, then torque them up by hand after. Ironically they are also the cheapest place, and also do performance tyres for track cars as well as full laser alignment, family run business for the past 86 years.

[macro]

After every time I remove my wheels or have a shop do work, I re-tighten them after a drive. Just for my own piece of mind.

Also, instead of the plastic arrows, just use a bright paint pen and dot the nut and rim where the touch. It won't last forever but it will give you some advanced warning.