Glow Plugs... Extra Activity After Start-up?

[Johnny&Ruby]

Hi all. I've already sent this as a PM and an email to Glen at CCAutos but I haven't heard anything back from him yet (he's a busy guy after all!) so I thought I would put the question out there to the rest of you as well. Marameisto, Falco and Delica304 have already sounded off on this subject to me in person at the below-referenced RHD meet last Friday, so they're exempt from my pestering haha! But other thoughts would be good... here's what I wrote to Glen...

"... we took her to a RHD meet here in Victoria last night to meet some other people from the forum and pick their brains. I mentioned to three of them that after the initial one-click-two-click glow plug startup cycle on a cold morning there is an additional series of rapid clicks from the relays (a dozen or more clicks) while the engine runs rough for the first minute or so. Two of the three Delica owners polled said that this is normal and that their vehicles do the same thing but the third said that his didn't, that it's not normal at all, and that I should get it checked, maybe get the computer replaced. And then all three of them in unison said I should contact you and see what you said.

So, should I worry about this? I figure it's just the glow plugs doing a little extra warm up for me... ? Or is that too hopeful?... "

[Fishtank]

J&R, for what it is worth mine does the same thing and has done so since day one. In my opinion this is normal.

[Johnny&Ruby]

J&R, for what it is worth mine does the same thing and has done so since day one. In my opinion this is normal.

Maybe I should just add a poll to this post? Do we have that option on this forum, I wonder? ::: checking ::: Doesn't seem we do! Oh well. Thanks for your input fishtank.

[bae146]

My Pajero does the same, I was also told this is normal.

[MadB0mb3r]

Mine does the same.. 92 Chamonix.

Hi all. I've already sent this as a PM and an email to Glen at CCAutos but I haven't heard anything back from him yet (he's a busy guy after all!) so I thought I would put the question out there to the rest of you as well. Marameisto, Falco and Delica304 have already sounded off on this subject to me in person at the below-referenced RHD meet last Friday, so they're exempt from my pestering haha! But other thoughts would be good... here's what I wrote to Glen...

"... we took her to a RHD meet here in Victoria last night to meet some other people from the forum and pick their brains. I mentioned to three of them that after the initial one-click-two-click glow plug startup cycle on a cold morning there is an additional series of rapid clicks from the relays (a dozen or more clicks) while the engine runs rough for the first minute or so. Two of the three Delica owners polled said that this is normal and that their vehicles do the same thing but the third said that his didn't, that it's not normal at all, and that I should get it checked, maybe get the computer replaced. And then all three of them in unison said I should contact you and see what you said.

So, should I worry about this? I figure it's just the glow plugs doing a little extra warm up for me... ? Or is that too hopeful?... "

[asorensen]

Same, mine has done this since day one. I always thought that it was part of the warm-up of the van. As in the plugs cycle several times for the first little bit until the van is up to a normal idle. On a side note lately I have been hearing what I can only describe as an electric whine (high pitched) for a second or so on start-up anyone else heard this?

[mararmeisto]

This is what I've gleaned from the repair manual - Engine Electrical - found on the wiki-pages:

-glow plug relays are controlled by the ECU, and these are what you hear 'clicking'
-first one comes on when the key is switched to ON
-when the vehicle is warm (as determined by the engine coolant temp sensor), the second one will click off the glow plugs less than 4 seconds otherwise the second click will be around 8 seconds
-after START and running, if the engine is still cold, the relays will rapid-fire the glow plugs for a time, until the engine is warm enough or until 180 seconds (at which point the relays will shut off and the glow plugs will no longer be energised).

After a quick phone call with ccautos to confirm some other points, there is also this:
-the usual problems with the glow circuit tends to be the ECU, the engine coolant temperature sensor or the glow plugs
-the ECU tends to either short out or deteriorate from age (the discrete components like the capacitors or resistors fail after 15 years of use)
-the engine coolant temp sensor will fail, giving false reading and continued firing of the glow plugs
-a single faulty glow plug can 'pull down' the lot of them - don't buy the 9$ ones, spend the money and get good ones (either NKGs or Mitsubishi) - change them all at once (there's only 4)

The following are best remembrances - check with Glen for actual pricings:
-ECUs are about 150$ with exchange (old ones are refurbished) (not 800$ like quoted on another thread - although I could see that for original new from Mitsubishi);
-temp sensors are 45$;
-and glow plugs are 30$ each for Mitsubishi originals (which he has);
-NKG glow plugs are something like 50$ each!
-most of these vehicles have original glow circuits, so 200-400$ every 15 years is pretty good cost-time benefit
-a diesel engine WILL start without its glow circuit due to compression (as long as the batteries hold out to crank the starter motor) and residual temperature (if the engine is already warm), but it will start a lot quicker and easier with one

I'm thinking of installing a 'glow lamp' as indicated in the maintenance drawings, simply because I live on a very busy street and I can't always hear the second click. Thinking of putting it on the centre console near the window switches. Will show when complete.

[FalcoColumbarius]

Do you think Mararmeisto should see a doctor??!! Just kidding. I think that when one owns a vehicle like the Delica it becomes somewhat like being the father of a daughter... who is 15 or 16..... and everything you notice.... The other day I heard something falling off my aft port quarter and I thought.... oh no..... then it dawned on me that it was a rock from the Harrison FSR that my tyre finally got tired of playing with.

Falco.

[FalcoColumbarius]

Thank you for that data, Mararmeisto..... It feels good to know more what is going on.

Falco.

[jessef]

-after START and running, if the engine is still cold, the relays will rapid-fire the glow plugs for a time, until the engine is warm enough or until 180 seconds (at which point the relays will shut off and the glow plugs will no longer be energised).

That is correct.

The colder the plugs are, the more series of clicks you will hear. (warming them up)

There is one other thing as well.

If you are using it in cold weather (- 0), turn the ignition to 'on' , 2 clicks , then off. Then 'on' , 2 clicks, then off.

I repeat this a few times depending on how cold it is.

This will warm up the plugs faster than turning the engine over after the initial 2 clicks and you won't get that massive my-vehicle-is-falling-apart-shaking happening.

That's how I got the Paj starting smoothly in Whistler all winter.

This is from the horse's mouth. Peterbuilt and Mitsu diesel mechanic's, as well as the mechanic's working on the Mitsu's in Japan that I've spoken with up north.

Jesse

[Johnny&Ruby]

Awesome! And today got a reply from Glen @ CCAuto... marameisto, he says you called to chew him out for taking so long to reply to me?! Damn, I hope he wasn't serious! :l I trust you had other things to say to him as well... ??

So yeah, in agreement with all y'all, Glen sez that's normal. So that's a relief. Thanks everybody for all the advice! This forum roxors!

[Johnny&Ruby]

Marameisto, I found this diagram on another thread. Just in case you haven't seen it.

Pull the ECM, take it apart anf visually inspect it. If you see and signs of blown resistors or capacitors either replace them yourself or take them to your neighbourhood geek or ham radio operator and ask them to do it. Will cost you a case of beer or a bottle of Scotch perhaps. Or, it is my understanding you could swap it out for a rebuilt unit from CCAutos for something like $150.00. This diagram was posted by Bruce on another related threadin this forum:



Here's a more in depth look at the actual circuit board from the ECM in case you need it to show to your local repair geek to see if he would tackle it:

[Green1]

If you are using it in cold weather (- 0), turn the ignition to 'on' , 2 clicks , then off. Then 'on' , 2 clicks, then off.
I repeat this a few times depending on how cold it is.
This will warm up the plugs faster than turning the engine over after the initial 2 clicks and you won't get that massive my-vehicle-is-falling-apart-shaking happening.

This is good practice in any Diesel, though I don't tend to bother until it gets to more like -15 to -20... (at 0 the thing starts pretty reliably, and doesn't usually feel like the world is about to end)
The one catch is that these vehicles actually determine their glow cycle time from temperature, so when you "double glow" the second cycle it usually less than a second long (not doing a whole lot of good), if it lasts longer than a second, then you know you needed it!!!

[mararmeisto]

Awesome! And today got a reply from Glen @ CCAuto... marameisto, he says you called to chew him out for taking so long to reply to me?! Damn, I hope he wasn't serious! :l I trust you had other things to say to him as well... ??

I prefer to call it 'gently reminding him to engage/interact with his clientele'.

PS: L0\/3 the L33T. Don't usually see much of it here.

[Erebus]

Mine also did the clicking after starting. But since I broke one glow plug, and the wire now attaches at the very back, not only is starting much harder, the glowplug clicking after starting is a very rapid on-off, pause, on-off, pause, etc. They don't stay anywhere near as long as they did before I (well, okay, I'll give Green1 the credit) broke one.