Turbo problems ? Read here before taking it to a shop

[Green1]

If people would have a boost and pyro gauge installed in all delica's and pay attention to them, turbo/engines would last a lot longer believe me.

I've been looking for and wanting to do this since I bought my first Delica in December. I talked about it with my mechanic today and he told me don't waste my money on a pyro. He said I would never damage my turbo via excess temperature because I have such a low horsepower engine. I'm now thinking he was talking about total failure and replacement rather than just extending the life of my turbo and engine. Any further thoughts to share?

This one has been brought up before as well, I believe it was CCAutos who also stated that it wasn't worth adding a pyro.

That said, I certainly can see the value to it (even though I haven't installed one in my own vehicle) I think this will boil down to personal preference really... Will you have a catastrophic engine failure from not having a pyro? unlikely. Will your engine last longer with one? that depends on what you do with the results, if you pay attention to it, and act accordingly, probably.... how much longer? well... that's hard to guess too...

whether you decide to add one or not, the one thing that is important is to use the information you do have in front of you, if your engine is running HOT, slow down!! if it's a pyro gauge, or just the coolant temp, either way, make sure you pay attention to it!

[jessef]

Go uphill for a while and when you pull over, let me know if you think the turbo casing glowing a bright crimson red is normal.

The answer : it shouldn't be glowing red.

And yes, green1, extreme high egt's will cook the engine because the cooling system just can't keep up. Over the past few years there's been quite a few toasted engines on the forum and more if you ask the service shops.

There a many threads about the pro's of having a temperature monitor for the exhaust.

There are no con's except you'll probably alter the way how you drive, specifically up hills.

A pyro egt is more important on an L300 with the 2.5 pre-1993 as the newer ones have a oil/water cooled turbo that does not heat up like a cherry when pushed.

[Green1]

And yes, green1, extreme high egt's will cook the engine because the cooling system just can't keep up. Over the past few years there's been quite a few toasted engines on the forum and more if you ask the service shops.

I am not denying the value of the EGT, but how many of those could have been prevented by simply watching the gauge that already exists?

Adding another gauge won't help you if you don't watch the ones you already have.

[jessef]

True.

I just found that the oil/water sensors don't always come on until after everything is glowing like a volcano.

Specific gauges like the pyro, oil pressure and trans temp are not mandatory but they do give good indicators that if followed will definitely treat the engine better.

[Erebus]

I use my pyro to make sure the turbo has cooled down sufficiently before shutting down the engine. Worst case is pulling off highway on uphill run into gas station. EGT is up at 1200F, I'll let it idle for the 3-5 minutes it takes to get the EGT down to 500F.

Okay, more like turbo temp than EGT, since that would cool down quick. My pyro seems to measure the temperature of the metal parts more than the exhaust gas temp.

Having a pyro makes me slow down on the long uphill runs to avoid the 1500, keeping it down to 1300 will certainly help the engine in the long run.

[Jsq]

What I'm reading between the lines here is that good driving habits are just as valuable as installing a pyro or any other engine monitoring sensor. The good ol' Delica is not a high performance racing machine and should not be driven as such. Good driving sense will tell you that you don't keep the accelerator pinned while climbing hills, hauling loads, bucking a head wind, etc. I was beginning to develop a feeling that I had purchased a vehicle with a very low tolerance for 'work' but now I'm seeing that it's more about driving sensibly.

The techno geek inside of me still wants to buy and install a pyro tomorrow but the tired arse hard working father is just as happy spending money on new tires, brakes and a muffler. LOL...I might even go crazy and pay someone to flush my cooling system.

Thanks guys and gals for all your insights. I love this forum! Good views from all angles.

[fmande]

I have just found these on Ebay Australia


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Turbocharger-Mit ... 3efe290cd8


regards fmande

[drrod]

I have been considering putting in a pyrometer but have been procrastinating. On the surface, it seems like a good idea but is there data anywhere that relates exhaust gas temp to turbo/engine life? I mean hard data, not anecdotal. Sure there have been many engine failures reported but what were they due too. Too much engine heat is a pretty broad stroke for a cause. Too much heat due to what? Poorly maintained cooling system, low oil, etc. etc.?
- How much does 1500 degrees shorten engine life or is it OK for short periods of time compared to 1200 degrees constantly?
- is allowing cool down to 500 better than 400 or even 600?
- how accurate are aftermarket pyrometers?
- temp sensor upstream or downstream?
- etc.

I agree with Green 1. Having information but not utilizing it does little good. The problem is.....what is the information telling you and is it accurate? If the pyrometer reads 1500, what does that mean other than it is probably hotter than 1200 (on that particular gauge)? If an engine fails, is it because it was run at higher temps or was it because the oil change interval was ignored or the cooling system needed servicing or did the owner simply drive the hell out of it?

My gut tells me common sense is the best thing that extends engine life. Flog it and it will die sooner. Baby it and it will last longer. From my racing days, I do know that cool down is VERY important for older turbos otherwise the turbo bearing life is drastically shortened. Not so much of a problem with modern "oil supplied" and water cooled setups.

Please don't get me wrong. I am not trying to be argumentative. I would just like to know if there is any real, hard data pertaining to the Delica.
As an old prof once told me ".....anecdote is not the plural of data....."


Rod

[jessef]

My gut tells me common sense is the best thing that extends engine life. Flog it and it will die sooner. Baby it and it will last longer. From my racing days, I do know that cool down is VERY important for older turbos otherwise the turbo bearing life is drastically shortened. Not so much of a problem with modern "oil supplied" and water cooled setups.

Pyrometer gauges are installed from the factory on many Isuzu, Peterbuilt, Dodge, Mercedes workhorse trucks. There is a reason why.

A pyro is not necessary.

If you don't have a pyrometer gauge, the next best thing is like you said, common sense if you know what to look for.

If you find yourself driving often in hilly/mountain areas, then do yourself a favor and after climbing a hill, pull over at the top and look in the engine compartment at the turbo, intake and exhaust manifolds.

If it's glowing red, back off the throttle the next time you climb that same hill and test/feel the difference. Once you've done it a few times and those engine parts look like they should (not red), then adjust to that driving style.

Believing this or not is really up to you guys.

EVERY L300 I've driven has given me the same indicators when driving up hills or against a heavy wind.

One more thing, even if you have a new rad, cooling system flushed, fresh oil change and a good working engine, you can still blow it to bits and cook it pushing up the pass at Manning park or Coq highway. That's a fact as it has been noted many times in this forum and off it by owners and mechanics.

The intake/exh/turbo manifolds are not supposed to be glowing red. If they are, imagine what the oil and bearings are like inside those volcanoes.

[drrod]

Can't argue with anything you said. I was just wondering if there was any available hard data on how hot/how long/etc. Any differences with type of oil? Ambient temp?, etc. All questions that there are probably no real answers for. So.....erring on the side of caution, I think I am going to install a pyro. Wonder why Mitsu didn't think it was important enough to make standard, yet they thought an altimeter was?!
Rod

[jessef]

Not sure. There are many reasons why a manufacturer chooses to/not to install a monitoring device. You see monitoring devices more and more on newer vehicles. Especially pyrometers in diesels. I think most Isuzu's have them in the larger than 1ton trucks.

[Erebus]

I have been considering putting in a pyrometer but have been procrastinating. On the surface, it seems like a good idea but is there data anywhere that relates exhaust gas temp to turbo/engine life? I mean hard data, not anecdotal. Sure there have been many engine failures reported but what were they due too. Too much engine heat is a pretty broad stroke for a cause. Too much heat due to what? Poorly maintained cooling system, low oil, etc. etc.?
- How much does 1500 degrees shorten engine life or is it OK for short periods of time compared to 1200 degrees constantly?
- is allowing cool down to 500 better than 400 or even 600?
- how accurate are aftermarket pyrometers?
- temp sensor upstream or downstream?
- etc.

I don't have hard data. How accurate is my pyrometer? No idea. I suspect it reads high, since my numbers seem higher than anyone else's. Basically I have gotten used to what it shows under different conditions, and try not to let it get too hot for too long, and let it cool down before stopping. I can tell a 10 km/h headwind from a 10 km/h tailwind from the temp.

400 vs 500 vs 600? No one has given me a good cutoff temp. I settled on 500 on my gauge as a reasonable compromise between cooling down more and not wanting to sit idling forever. I live about 2 km from the highway, and by the time I pull into the driveway it is usually down to 500, so I don't have to idle. Keep in mind that when engine is turned off, the cooling flow of oil stops. And the oil that is in the turbo's bearings can get coked, which you want to avoid.

Upstream vs downstream of turbo. Upstream will give higher numbers. Biggest negative to installing upstream is the risk of metal shaving from drilling the hole falling into the impeller. Downstream install is also easier.

I take installing a pyro to be like taking out insurance -- you only know after the fact if it was a good idea.

[Morganizer]

Should I be able to hear my turbocharger in operation? I used to drive a Dodge Colt Turbo, also by Mitsubishi, and when I tromped the gas pedal I'd get this characteristic "fwwwing!" as the turbo kicked in. Never heard a peep from the L300. And it's right beneath my seat.

[konadog]

I've never been able to distinguish the sound of my L-300's turbo either