Delica Canada | Mitsubishi Van Club

EricN wrote:

guamdoc wrote: C02 is a bi-product of incomple combustion

Wrong. The higher the CO2, the more complete the combustion.

however, CO is a byproduct of incomplete combustion from oxygen starvation

gaumdoc,
I'm just curious, are you selling these kits or our you just really enthused about them?

Schwa wrote:

EricN wrote:

guamdoc wrote: C02 is a bi-product of incomple combustion

Wrong. The higher the CO2, the more complete the combustion.

however, CO is a byproduct of incomplete combustion from oxygen starvation

Sorry Type 0, I Ment C0 (Carbon Monoxide) did that about 1am in the morning my time.

Here's some emission facts. And yes I own the company, But if your club is not interested then I'll just move on more power and a better running vehicle is not for everyone I guess. Informing people of the benefits is what we do, Never said you had to buy from our company and told you that there are several to choose from. We are vendors on mean different forums in the us. Most places would not bother trying to put the word out to a small population of turbo diesels such as these as these are everywere in Japan, Philippines, Thailand ect. As they say in the Philippines (Up to you)

You will find us all over the world and in plenty of post and threads on forums not to mention magazines.
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/featur ... index.html

Buy don't buy, does not matter do what you want with the fact.
Emissions


Vehicles powered by internal combustion engines produce by-products in the form of emissions, some of which are harmful to the environment. The main by-products which are produced are water (H2O) and Carbon Dioxide (CO2). In addition, relatively low concentrations of the following potentially harmful substances are produced:

• Carbon Monoxide (CO) – a colourless, odourless gas which is formed when hydrocarbon fuels are burnt in the combustion process and is a result of incomplete combustion. Spark-ignition engines are particularly responsible for carbon monoxide emissions; an air/fuel mixture which is rich in fuel produces an excessive concentration of CO. It is important that vehicles with petrol engines are correctly tuned and maintained to provide the optimum air/ fuel mixture and so ensure that carbon monoxide emissions are minimised. In comparison, diesel engines are lean running, so tend to produce less CO emissions than equivalent petrol engines. However, if there is not enough excess air in the combustion chamber, increased emissions of carbon monoxide will result, as well as higher concentrations of soot and hydrocarbons (HC). According to a 1997 study “Improving air quality in Europe” conducted by the Club de Bruxelles, in 1996 road transport produced 65% of carbon monoxide emissions. Carbon monoxide has a significant impact on human health, in particular on the body's ability to absorb oxygen.

WARNING:Carbon monoxide is dangerous to inhale and is potentially lethal. Concentrations are particularly high when an engine is running in a workshop or other confined space.

• Hydrocarbons (HC) – present in exhaust gases and like carbon monoxide, are a result of unburned fuel during combustion. HC concentrations increase as the air/fuel mixture becomes rich and also increase if a misfire occurs. Hydrocarbons are particularly prevalent when an engine is cold and are evident by the presence of white or blue smoke from the exhaust. Hydrocarbons are also produced in the crankcase in the form of vaporized lubrication oil and through evaporation of fuel from the fuel tank and fuel system. Diesel fuels contain a large number of hydrocarbons which have boiling points between about 180°C and 360°C and the required ignition temperature for diesel fuel is approximately 220°C. It is difficult to ensure a high enough ignition temperature for cold engines and at low speeds which have a corresponding low final compression pressure. Consequently the presence of hydrocarbons is predominant at cold starting.

• Carbon Dioxide (CO2) – is a by-product of complete combustion and contributes to the 'greenhouse effect', the principal cause of global warming. Carbon Dioxide is produced even under perfect combustion conditions. According to Society of Motor Maufacturers and Traders (SMMT) figures, the global warming attributable to vehicular CO2 emissions is 12% in the UK. However, according to a 1997 study “Improving air quality in Europe” conducted by the Club de Bruxelles, in 1996 road traffic produced some 80% of total carbon dioxide (CO2).

• Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx) – includes Nitric Oxide (NO) and Nitrogen Dioxide (NO2) and is produced in exhaust gases as a by-product of the combustion process. Lean mixtures produce more oxides of nitrogen than rich mixtures as the combustion temperature is increased. According to the 1997 study, road transport is responsible for over half of all NO2 emissions. NO2 causes respiratory illnesses and damage to lung tissue and contributes to acid rain and smog. It also corrodes stone buildings, statues and monuments.

• Sulphur Dioxide (SO2) – along with sulphuric acid (H2SO4) and Oxides of Nitrogen, contribute to the formation of 'acid rain'. It is one of the main atmospheric acidifiers and is the main culprit in the gradual errosion of buildings and other monuments of cultural heritage exposed to ambient air.

• Soot particles (diesel vehicles) – tiny particles of carbon are produced which can carry fuel and oil. The start of injection influences the emission of soot particles; if the start of injection is delayed such that there is incomplete combustion, increased levels of soot particles will result. The use of high injection pressures, particularly at low engine speeds can greatly reduce soot emissions and optimum injection direction such as that provided by EUI nozzles help to limit black smoke production. Growing concern has been attracted by the emissions of particulate matter, since it is composed of tiny particles which can linger in the lungs with serious health effects, including cancer.
In addition to the above, the transport sector produces a substantial share (about 30%) of emissions of non-methane volatile organic compounds (VOC) in Europe. Other air pollutants of concern come from substances in petrol such as lead and benzine which are also considered to be carcinogenic. The European Commission proposes to limit benzene values from 1st January 2010 and carbon monoxide levels from 1st January 2005. The two pollutants have been exempt from controls so far, but have been linked to an increased risk of leukaemia and heart disease. Motor vehicle emissions also create concentrations of ozone at ground level which when exposed to heat form the type of pollution known as “summer smog”. Ozone causes breathing problems, reduced lung function, asthma, eye irritation, nasal congestion and reduced resistance to colds and other infections. Ozone can be especially dangerous for the young and the elderly, and can also damage plants and trees and cause deterioration of rubber and fabrics. The approximate proportions of exhaust gas constituents for modern petrol vehicles is listed below:

• Water (H2O) – 14%
• Carbon Dioxide (CO2) – 13%
• Nitrogen (N) – 72.9%
• CO + NOx + HC = 0.1%

Don't get offended, guamdoc but before I run out and buy an alcohol injection system, I'll have to research it through more...objective sources.
Being that you make your living from selling them, I don't see you as such.

I know nothing much about alcohol injection, and only heard about it used in fighter planes and race cars.
And as far as I know, even on the fighter planes it was used sparingly, not as full time assist.
My Delica being neither, i'm a bit skeptical.

If such a system was indeed harmless and could boost engine's output significantly with no long term ill effects, at the very least manufacturers would offer them as optional equipment.

I'm just a bit worried that something that may work well on a vehicle built for high output, may not work QUITE as well on a diesel van built for 86hp and some 200ft lb torque, with no further modifications to the engine and tranny itself, as well as the rest of the drive train.

Actually I'm Active duty US Navy Hospital Corpsman for the last 16 years that's what I do for a living, But feel free to do your own research, All we can offer you is the technical facts and customer opinions of the actual systems. Not a bunch of copy and paste theory on how it does or could work. We don't sell these all over the world if they did not work as advertised.

The factory don't include high flow exhaust, K&N style air filters, Ceramic brake pads, Synthetic oil, Larger tranny coolers, high performance ignition systems, ect, ect, Not really a good way to gauge things.

You can add as much or as little extra power to your vehicle with the systems but feel free to do your own research, I have stated that in the post several time already.

Good luck

guamdoc wrote:Actually I'm Active duty US Navy Hospital Corpsman for the last 16 years that's what I do for a living, But feel free to do your own research, All we can offer you is the technical facts and customer opinions of the actual systems. Not a bunch of copy and paste theory on how it does or could work. We don't sell these all over the world if they did not work as advertised.

The factory don't include high flow exhaust, K&N style air filters, Ceramic brake pads, Synthetic oil, Larger tranny coolers, high performance ignition systems, ect, ect, Not really a good way to gauge things.

You can add as much or as little extra power to your vehicle with the systems but feel free to do your own research, I have stated that in the post several time already.

Good luck

i don't get it
so DO you or DON'T you sell these?

I started the company and own it along with my business partner, And yes I am active duty military stationed on Guam. That's were the Guamdoc come from.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/viewin ... -us-4.html

Jester wrote: If such a system was indeed harmless and could boost engine's output significantly with no long term ill effects, at the very least manufacturers would offer them as optional equipment.

It's hard not to start ranting about that statement but my momma told me if you can't say something nice, shut the **** up. Unless it was meant sarcastically. For one look up the conspiracy theory surrounding Rudolf Diesel's death.

Thanks for the link Bilal, reasonable price for the 4 cylinder TD kit. Being a (ex) petroleum chemist learned about all fuels in huge detail, though age and Tequila has faded my mind.

Cheers

BCDelica wrote:

Jester wrote: If such a system was indeed harmless and could boost engine's output significantly with no long term ill effects, at the very least manufacturers would offer them as optional equipment.

It's hard not to start ranting about that statement but my momma told me if you can't say something nice, shut the **** up. Unless it was meant sarcastically. For one look up the conspiracy theory surrounding Rudolf Diesel's death.

Thanks for the link Bilal, reasonable price for the 4 cylinder TD kit. Being a (ex) petroleum chemist learned about all fuels in huge detail, though age and Tequila has faded my mind.

Cheers

Hey, I'm not attacking the guy or anything. Perhaps this is the best thing to come out for our vans ever, who knows!
All I'm saying is that it'd be nice to get some solid info about this from an independent source of some kind.
I mean, the output boost seems quite high, however MY momma always said "if something SOUNDS too good to be true..." well you know the rest.

Here's an OPEN INVITATION for any Delica.ca members with any kind of water/alcohol injection experience(particularly for diesels) to please post up your experiences.

Has anyone used this in a non-high performance everyday vehicle?
what were your experiences?
is anyone brave(or wealthy) enough to try this first?
post up please!

Jester didn't mean to say your attacking anyone, big company's just make my blood boil when I think about there attempted manipulation of our lives. Two page ad spreads for ethanol as mother natures fuel, or media and government promoting ethanol but stabing humor at biodiesel every chance they get; get me just pissed. 20 year ago, first hand lab experience with ideas the seemed to almost to good to be true but we never see those ideas implemented by auto manufactures. Displacement and power are what you get in North America, or that's what they tell us we want.

I wanted a WVO powered vehicle back in the mid 80's, figuring with the 70's gas crises you wouldn't have to wait to long for a veggie hybrid to be available.

I'll get off my soap box now, it's too early to rant......................

Here's a post for AutoSpeed on water injection. They usually have excellent articles but it's up to you to decide if you agree with them... I also read some of the Transport Canada report, for all of you ex-submarine and vessel type you may enjoy it!
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_110212/article.html

Transport Canada differed in some points in their conclusion compared to AutoSpeed or guamdoc. For example, detonation was sometime increased and other time decreased, both still within norms which made them say it wasn't an impacting factor. Both AutoSpeed and guamdoc stated it decreased knock... so read between the lines I guess.

guamdoc, I respect your attempt to get your product on the main stream. It's the way to do business after all! Some products are good some not but until someone trusted try and objectively reports to the rest of the crowd then it's easy to put down a product... I'd rather educate myself some more before saying anything nasty! But for business side of thing, how much for your complete system. That might convince someone to be the first...

The marine use from the Transport Canada report used massive amounts of water injection and it is a big difference between a 4cly turbo diesel engine or gas engine.

Here is a good article to read on water injection
http://www.max-boost.co.uk/max-boost/intake/WI.htm

The stage 1 4cly turbo diesel kit is $220 USD http://www.alcohol-injection.com

And you would not be the first we sell these all over the world, Plenty of these vehicles run the kits from land rover to Pajaro, to Troopers. Plenty of JDM turbo diesels have benefited.

Should be back in the Philippines for Dyno day on 26th May so plenty more Japan TD to show should have a Spacegear or two there.


A example what kind of vendors we have, Kits are proven the world over.
http://shop.rezlo.com/SA/index.php?act= ... ductId=908

You would be hard pressed not to find us in performance magazines as well on many high powered vehicles.
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/featur ... specs.html

Here's the conclusion of AutoSpeed Newsletter part 2 on water injection. This is only the conclusion:

"The data presented in this story is just a small sample of the information available from scientific and engineering sources. There’s absolutely no doubt that water injection, if properly engineered and integrated with the existing engine management system, can be highly effective."

"In fact, to summarise:
1-There is sound engineering behind the use of water injection.
2-Water injection, with or without added alcohol, can massively increase the effective octane rating of fuel.
3-The amount of water that has a positive effect can be as small as 10 per cent of the fuel flow (a water/fuel ratio of 0.1:1) and as high as 150 per cent of the fuel flow (a water/fuel ratio of 1.5:1).
4-The water should be added in a fine spray.
5-When water injection is being used, the air/fuel ratio can be leaned out at high loads without increasing the likelihood of detonation.
6-When water injection is being used without any other engine ‘tune’ changes simultaneously being made (eg more advanced ignition timing, increased boost, increased compression ratio), power is likely to decline.
7-Lower combustion temperatures are likely to lead to reduced heat load on the cooling system and lower exhaust gas temperatures.
8-Water injection has a positive effect on emissions, especially in relation to NOx."

So take it for what it's worth, by what I read it's probably not a bad system if it's fitted and adjusted properly. F1 cars were using it in the 80's and Rally cars were using it until recently (it got banned?!?).

If someone local had been running it for a few years with great success I'm sure guamdoc would sell those puppies like hot pies but right now no one is willing to be the one...

I haven't been following this thread too much, but I have a few questions about the terms and references being used. Keep in mind that my knowledge is still quite limited to this subject.

delicat wrote: 2-Water injection, with or without added alcohol, can massively increase the effective octane rating of fuel.

Question #1: Diesel has a cetane rating, not octane, how does this apply?

delicat wrote:5-When water injection is being used, the air/fuel ratio can be leaned out at high loads without increasing the likelihood of detonation.

Question #2: Diesel is based on detonation, no? If we add something to change the detonation, that is like advancing or retarding the spark timing in a gasoline engine. ????

So, someone with more brain power please fill me in.

Fishtank wrote:I haven't been following this thread too much, but I have a few questions about the terms and references being used. Keep in mind that my knowledge is still quite limited to this subject.

delicat wrote: 2-Water injection, with or without added alcohol, can massively increase the effective octane rating of fuel.

Question #1: Diesel has a cetane rating, not octane, how does this apply?

delicat wrote:5-When water injection is being used, the air/fuel ratio can be leaned out at high loads without increasing the likelihood of detonation.

Question #2: Diesel is based on detonation, no? If we add something to change the detonation, that is like advancing or retarding the spark timing in a gasoline engine. ????

So, someone with more brain power please fill me in.

Cetane and octane are different words for the same basic thing, Octane and Cetane are the most efficient fuel for and engine (cetane for diesel and octane for gas)

quote from wikipedia

The octane rating of a spark ignition engine fuel is the knock resistance (anti-knock rating) compared to a mixture of iso-octane (2,2,4-trimethylpentane, an isomer of octane) and n-heptane. By definition, iso-octane is assigned an octane rating of 100 and heptane is assigned an octane rating of zero. An 87-octane gasoline, for example, possesses the same anti-knock rating of a mixture of 87% (by volume) iso-octane and 13% (by volume) n-heptane. This does not mean, however, that the gasoline actually contains these hydrocarbons in these proportions. It simply means that it has the same autoignition resistance as the described mixture.

A high tendency to autoignite, or low octane rating, is undesirable in a spark ignition engine but desirable in a diesel engine. The standard for the combustion quality of diesel fuel is the cetane number. A diesel fuel with a high cetane number has a high tendency to autoignite, as is preferred.

It should be noted that octane rating does not relate to the energy content of the fuel (see heating value), nor the speed at which the flame initiated by the spark plug propagates across the cylinder. It is only a measure of the fuel's resistance to autoignition. It is for this reason that one highly branched form, or isomer, of octane (2,2,4-trimethylpentane) has (by definition) an octane rating of 100, whereas n-octane (see octane), which has a linear arrangement of the 8 carbon atoms, has an octane rating of -10, even though the two fuels have exactly the same chemical formula and virtually identical heating values and flame speeds.