Air Conditioner not working

[lesman67]

I just purchased a 1993 Delica Super Exceed. I discovered that the A/C is not blowing cold. I am told it is $400 to recharge as it uses 'freone' an illegal gas. Has anyone purchased a Delica with the A/C not working? I have an 16 year old Toyota that has never had a problem with A/C.

Also, I am picking the Van up tomorrow. Any suggestions on a personal inspection I should do before leaving the mechanics, I would kinda like to get it home in proper 'working' condition.

Thanks!

[quadzilla]

Lots of AC's don't work, but they can be recharged. $400 sounds steep. Someone in Van must surely be able to do it for less $$ than that..

[twisted]

I recharged mine on my own. Got a recharge kit at Canadian Tire. 1 can sealant, 1 can of oil, and 3 cans refrigerant. Worked great but it looks like I may need to replace some orings.

[Mystery Machine]

If it's a '93 then the gas (refrigerant) used will probably be R12 which, as you say, is now illegal. Here in the UK, no AC company is allowed to refill an AC system with R12....they have to extract the old gas and convert the system to R134a. This involves fittng new charging valves/ports (both high & low pressure) then refilling the system with the R134a.

I had mine converted a few years back and it cost me £100 ($200) This included the following:

Removal & disposal of old R12 gas (according to the BS regulations)
Remove old charge ports to high & low pressure pipes
Fit new style charge ports
Visual check of complete system
Charge system with 1.25kg R134a refrigerant (inc. 65cc of lubricant) and small quantity of UV trace
Run and check entire system with UV light for leaks
Further free check 1 month later to ensure system still operating correctly

Seeing as AC is quite a 'new' thing for us (until about 5 years ago, only the top line executive cars might have it fitted) it seems a little steep that I could get all this done for half the price you've been quoted when you are in a country where AC is part & parcel of a large majority of cars...i.e. plenty of companies who deal with AC compared to over here?

Maybe shop around and see what else you can get it done for?

[piyeguyo]

Recharging should not be a problem. But if something is not working, then you have a problem. I took mine to a mechanic here in Calgary, and he told me it needs a new compressor and something called receiver + drier. I haven't been able to find these parts...

[marsgal42]

Recharging should not be a problem. But if something is not working, then you have a problem. I took mine to a mechanic here in Calgary, and he told me it needs a new compressor and something called receiver + drier. I haven't been able to find these parts...

Remember that many of the parts in our Delicas are shared with other Mitsubishi models. In the early 1990s these were sold by Chrysler in Canada.

It may end up being a matter of taking some pictures or unbolting the part in question and showing it to the person at the parts counter: "I need one of these, please!"

...laura

[torchard]

I was quoted in the area of 500 bucks for a recharge, disposal of old refridgerant, some new seals, etc. Seems steep to me too, but appears to be the going rate and apparently there are few in this town willing to deal with the old coolant. I'm going to bite the bullet and get it done professionally and hopefully that will be the last time I have to deal with that system. (It worked initially but I think the seals or something went and it drained).

Added: As Mystery Machine has detailed above the $500 includes a comprehensive service package by someone who knows what they're doing (OK, they sound like they know what they're doing...).

[torchard]

FYI I'm getting mixed info on this. I was told that current laws prohibit over the counter recharge kits.

But apparently certain types if fully contained are. See this RedTek kit here http://www.partsource.ca/doityourself/JOM_June2007.asp.

I was also told no mechanic will work on a system containing mixed coolants i.e. new with traces of old. I suppose one contaminates the other making disposal an issue (what with the stricter environmental controls they must adhere to).

I recharged mine on my own. Got a recharge kit at Canadian Tire. 1 can sealant, 1 can of oil, and 3 cans refrigerant. Worked great but it looks like I may need to replace some orings.

[thelazybrownfox]

hey guys and gals
Tomorrow at noon a mobile a/c mechanic is coming by to evacuate my system and I'll probably let him recharge it to. So far I have all ther refridgerant, seal, and leak fluid plus the fittings, hoses and guage to do the entire job. I spent $110 and he wants $80 to evacuate. I'l probably returrn some of the gear and expect parts to be less than $95 by the time I'm finished. More news after he finishes tomorrow.

You shouldn't need to pay for a R12 disposal as it all should have leaked out by now. The expectation is a 15 year life for R12 and its' up already. Duracool (KMS tools and Steve their employee and the mobile mechanic too) is compatable with R12 and if you already have a vacuum there's no need to evacuate the system. If its leaked out you need a vacuum to rid the system of air and moisture plus and dirt or fillings etc.

My big concern is that no schematic is available for my 92 deli. I can't trace down all the wiring and even though the 2 hi/lo limits check out and the fans both work it is a big mystery. I have no power to anything and the fuses are okay. Tomorrow morning I'll try to trace out the wiring from the battery to??

Anyone have any good ideas?

talk to ya soon
Wayne

[quadzilla]

You shouldn't need to pay for a R12 disposal as it all should have leaked out by now.

Exactly why my previous post suggested that $400 was too much to recharge the AC - I had my AC pressure tested and recharged fro $185. I suspect that most of the vans without a working AC don't have any refrigerant to dispose of.

[Mystery Machine]

I suspect that most of the vans without a working AC don't have any refrigerant to dispose of.

I wouldn't be too sure. It takes no time to extract the old gas and doesn't cost any more if done properly - but even if the AC has stopped working, there is probably still quite a bit of gas left in the system. The AC system works off pressure, and once the pressure drops below a certain level the clutch won't kick in....but there could still be 60-70% of the gas remianing.

If all the gas has 'leaked out' then I'd be wanting to find out where it has leaked before paying out for a re-gas....otherwise you could be losing all that investment in the re-gas before too long. If the system is completely empty and hasn't been working for some time then the 'o' rings would probably have persihed or won't seal properly...so you'll be back to square one in no time.

Most companies I have dealt with will always extract the old gas first anyway - they can measure it on the extraction and will be able to tell how much you have lost.

There is a lot to consider with these AC systems and just throwing in some gas is quite often not the answer.

Get it extracted, pressure tested, leak tested and checked over before getting it re-gassed. Any decent AC company should be able to do this as part of a re-gas (mine was and it only cost me $200 including follow up checks AND getting the valves converted)

The other thing to consider with extraction is that it will remove a lot of the residual oil in the system too....

Food for thought.

[quadzilla]

Yeah - I probably put too much emphasis in that statement. I suppose there are several reasons for no refrigerant in the AC. Like you said - get it pressure tested to make sure there isn't a leak. My point, though, was that $400-$500 to get the pressure test and refill is too much $$.

[Mystery Machine]

My point, though, was that $400-$500 to get the pressure test and refill is too much $$.

Totally agree, absolutely, 100%

Here in 'backward' UK where AC is still a 'novelty' that we're getting used to, the whole job I had done on mine was less than half what Lesman was quoted. And that included the full conversion to R134a.

One of the most important things to let an AC guy know is that the system takes 1.25kg of gas.....quite a bit more than most cars (well, most UK cars anyway! )

Let us know how you get on?

[thelazybrownfox]

Hey guys and gals (again)
A follow up on my A/C system fill last Saturday.

My mechanic was mobile (A/C Super Charge call Steve 604 977-3828 steve_haase7 @yahoo. com). I wanted an evac and fill. My A/C system had only one schrader valve on the low press. side and Steve needed two to complete the evac. He recomended using an experienced shop that can evacuate with only one fitting. Anyone have two fittings on their delica?

I had broken the system and knew there was no vacuum or pressure. I cleaned the rads, fired the compressor, four fans and checked out operation of the lo limit front system plus the hi limit rear system. The fuses had power but I couldn't trace the power any further. I was baffled and still don't understand where all the electrical components are. I need a ladder diagram or a wiring schematic to understand the logic of this system. Its crude in that it doesn't use a drier or sight glass but has a hi rev shut down and an idle increase switch.

Steve suggested using a can of "Chill FX" to partially test fill the system and run the compressor to spread the refridgerant. With a temperature guage in the air vent we filled at the compressor and the air started to chill! I heard sometimes the refridgerant is drained in Japan before shipping. Anyone else buy from the auctions in Tokyo?

The compressor would not run on its own till the next can of "Duracool" was blown in. After that we continued to fill (total of 6 cans) till the temperature from the vents stabilized. I don't understand how refridgerant flows and stabilizes in a system. Steve said "one can FX and 5 duracool was the correct amount". He also said "sealant should'nt be used until after you've filled and the refridgerant continues to leak out." It just gums up and reduces the efficiency of your A/C. You can hear and smell leaking refridgerant.

Duracool from KMS Tools is on sale now at $15 a can, FX $10 ea but the catch is the cost of the hoses and fittings makes it more expensive to do it yourself. Its a plug for A/C supercharge but i think a good choice!

I read if you want to leak check use a small amt. of R22 and up to 150 PSI nitrogen. Use soap and water to check for leaks. The theory is that a small amt of leaking R22 (cleans the i/s of your pipes etc.) is better than a total system loss. Repair your easy to find leaks and refill with (?). R134A and R22 leaked easily because of their smaller molecular size while Duracool is larger and less prone to leakage.

I like Bruce's point about removing the residual oil and others ideas about the sight glass and fittings. My choice was to pressurize the system and fix any electrical problems afterwards. I was surprised when It ran on its own. Hopefully I will have a cool Delica this whole summer and next. Call me when its hot out so I can brag how it works!!

Sorry to be so long winded!!
Wayne

P.S. I took pictures of the system and will post if you need.

[Mystery Machine]

My A/C system had only one schrader valve on the low press. side and Steve needed two to complete the evac. He recomended using an experienced shop that can evacuate with only one fitting. Anyone have two fittings on their delica?

Hi Wayne,

Glad you got it running in the end...but for reference, there are two valves - one on the top of the compressor and one on the pipe coming from the compressor. I'll try and get a photo of them - but the only L300 I've got with AC has been converted with new valves....however they are in the same place as the originals.

Its crude in that it doesn't use a drier or sight glass

Look under the front and remove the belly plate/bash plate. Just behind the front bumper on the passenger side (the other side of the chassis leg to the front AC condenser) is the receiver/drier. It looks a bit like a long thin oil filter. The sight glass is on the top if this....

To view the sight glass, peel back the carpet in the passenger footwell and pop the rubber grommet out of the floor - below this is the sight glass. Not obvious to find, but it is there!

The compressor would not run on its own till the next can of "Duracool" was blown in.

The AC system works off pressure, and once the pressure drops below a certain level the clutch won't kick in....

So this also works the other way - the system (compressor) won't work until there is enough gas in the system to pump around. A sensor looks for gas quantity/pressure to ensure there is sufficient in the system - otherwise there wouldn't be enough gas/oil mixture to lubricate the compressor and you'll kill it in no time.

I hope that all makes sense?