Seafoam Discussion

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nxski
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Re: Seafoam Discussion

Postby nxski » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:21 am

del400 wrote:well... i finally decided to try it out. Did a straight poor into the tank. Wasn't much difference at first, but the next day... :o Holly smokes, it's a new car. Probably a 20hp addition to the engine i swear. Pulls better on hills and stop start. Amazing stuff.
Absolutely no smoke of any kind in the car. Not that there was much before (just start ups).

WOW!!! :-D

Next oil change i'm doing the whole deed. 8-)

Thanks everyone...

Alex

:M


I'm glad you were able to see a result from this. Unfortunately it made no difference in power for me, it just made my van run rough for a few weeks. I ended up having my injectors cleaned before trying the fuel filter way. That made a massive difference. I went from 2-3 minutes of smoking in the morning to a tiny puff. The hp gains were dramatic as well. Lower egt's as well and it made the van idle lower (not a good thing, it just meant I had to adjust the revs but still an interesting result)
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RichD
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Re: Seafoam Discussion

Postby RichD » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:29 am

I don't know why some people are being naysayers about seafoam since its obviously just a flush which is common practice.

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nxski
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Re: Seafoam Discussion

Postby nxski » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:59 am

RichD wrote:I don't know why some people are being naysayers about seafoam since its obviously just a flush which is common practice.


I'm not being a naysayer, I'm just saying that putting it in the fuel tank must have diluted it too much for me to see any changes.
Live the life you love, love the life you live...

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Have: 2011 Acura CSX manual, lightly modified
Want: Mitsubishi Pajero Evo

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Re: Seafoam Discussion

Postby jessef » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:19 am

nxski wrote:The hp gains were dramatic as well. Lower egt's as well
Just a note that regular operating injectors does not give your van any horse power gains, nor does it lower the EGT's. Your Delica must have been running very rough prior to the injector clean. Cleaning them won't give you a 'gain'. Just bring the fuel system back to standard operating spec.

Pouring seamfoam into the tank is not the 100% ideal way to perform an injection pump/line/injector cleanse. In the first part of this topic is a list of proper directions on how to use it.

If you just pour it into the tank, you run the risk of the seafoam breaking down some of the smaller dirt particles and pushing it through to the filter/ip. Unless you drop the tank and inspect it, there is no sure fire way of knowing this. Most tanks are probably clean as a whistle but who knows. Nick, that's what may have caused your running rough.

Ideally, you would want the inlet/outlet lines direct from the injection pump placed into a container filled with seafoam and have the engine running. That is the 100% cleanse method. 2nd is to dump a can into a new fuel filter and run the engine. That would be about 70-80% effective as there is diesel from the tank diluting the seafoam in the filter. Pouring a can into the tank is anywhere from 5% to 60% effective as it gets heavily diluted and can dislodge small particles.

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Re: Seafoam Discussion

Postby RichD » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:35 am

nxski wrote:
RichD wrote:I don't know why some people are being naysayers about seafoam since its obviously just a flush which is common practice.


I'm not being a naysayer, I'm just saying that putting it in the fuel tank must have diluted it too much for me to see any changes.

I didn't quote you or say you are being a naysayer. Pouring it into the tank is Not A Good Idea. You want to do a flush and then remove the flushing agent, like you do with a crankcase treatment. The way Jesse and I treated his Safari was a very safe way to do it.

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Re: Seafoam Discussion

Postby nxski » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:42 am

The injectors were looking very bad according to Butch. It's my understanding that if something is impeding the flow of fuel (ie the engine isn't getting as much fuel) because of a clogged injector etc then performance will suffer!? When I asked Butch what result cleaning the injectors would have he said better fuel economy and more power. I can't tell you why the EGT's are lower but at any given speed they are about 150 degrees lower than before.
Live the life you love, love the life you live...

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Re: Seafoam Discussion

Postby nvanadm » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:27 pm

jfarsang wrote:inlet/outlet lines direct from the injection pump


Are those the same two lines going into the fuel filter? Is that where you take the two lines off and put into the jar or am I thinking of the wrong lines? Going to attempt this next week, so thanks in advance!

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Re: Seafoam Discussion

Postby jessef » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:04 pm

no. one line going into the fuel filter is from the tank and the other is from the injection pump.

on the injection pump are two lines. one in (from the fuel filter) and one out (back to the tank).

lost in this forum is a well documented IP/injector purge with pictures. profister posted it.

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Re: Seafoam Discussion

Postby Mr. Flibble » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:38 pm

RichD wrote:I don't know why some people are being naysayers about seafoam since its obviously just a flush which is common practice.


I remain skeptical of it because if it is mostly just naptha, and it is supposed to remove deposits, then it has exactly the opposite effect on your fuel pump as a lubricant. So, it does make me wonder if it causes fuel pump damage through lack of lubrication during that part of the pumping phase. Add to this the majority of fuel additives you find on store shelves are nothing more than expensive "homeopathy"* for your vehicle and I remain doubtful.

Is it possible that it works as claimed? Sure, I find that possible. But I don't have any scientific proof, so I remain extremely skeptical of the claims.

(IMO, Homeopathy and its ilk are all "woo" medicine.)
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Re: Seafoam Discussion

Postby jessef » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:54 pm

There is a reason why you will never see scientific proof = variables

No two vehicles, vehicle makes/models and engines (gas/diesel/hybrid) are driven exactly the same with the same fuel. Multiply that to create a large sample size to satisfy the scientists and it becomes a near impossibility.

It works. Not just for one or two people, but thanks to forums/online stats, it works for many. That's the proof.

Similar to 2-stroke oil. Long before anyone knew what a Delica was in Canada, diesel owners have been using 2-stroke oil to enhance diesel burn, fuel system lubrication and improve fuel consumption. Is there scientific proof that 2-stroke oil does all of these things? No. Yet you'd be hard pressed to find a good diesel owner or mechanic that will say it gives no improvement over a standard fill up.

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Re: Seafoam Discussion

Postby Mr. Flibble » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:29 pm

jfarsang wrote:There is a reason why you will never see scientific proof = variables

No two vehicles, vehicle makes/models and engines (gas/diesel/hybrid) are driven exactly the same with the same fuel. Multiply that to create a large sample size to satisfy the scientists and it becomes a near impossibility.

It works. Not just for one or two people, but thanks to forums/online stats, it works for many. That's the proof.

Similar to 2-stroke oil. Long before anyone knew what a Delica was in Canada, diesel owners have been using 2-stroke oil to enhance diesel burn, fuel system lubrication and improve fuel consumption. Is there scientific proof that 2-stroke oil does all of these things? No. Yet you'd be hard pressed to find a good diesel owner or mechanic that will say it gives no improvement over a standard fill up.


Except the premise you set up is actually scientifically testable. You can have people drive vehicles differently, and set up a double-blind test on their vehicle. Some you add seafoam to, and some you don't. You then track the mileage on these drivers and then ask them for how they "feel" the vehicle performed. You can then compare the difference of these results to the actual vehicles that have or had not had seafoam added.

As it stands now, all the "evidence" for seafoam is anecdotal through forum posts, not physical. There are lots of forum posts saying that adding a "magnetic" filter your fuel line increases fuel efficiency by "polarizing" the molecules or somesuch, but this is simply not true.

I am not saying seafoam does not work - rather I am saying that the majority of vehicle additives claims are spurious at best. It could very well be that seafoam works as claimed. However, I am the sort of person that prefers empirical evidence to anecdotal; so I find it unlikely that it works as claimed. If it was proven to work in a double-blind study or similar scientific environment then I would be more than happy to use it.
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Re: Seafoam Discussion

Postby Firesong » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:42 pm

For the 2 containers of seafoam costing aprox 20$ish It can't hurt to try.
I want to try it however I am scared of trying to bleed the lines of air after I
do it. Crazy hey.... How hard can it be...

<insert testimony about how crazy I am since I have removed turbo's,
manifold gaskets, alternators...etc...etc.>

How hard can it be (did I say that already ;) ? )

I even have the seafoam sitting in a bag in the van

FS

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Re: Seafoam Discussion

Postby jessef » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:03 pm

Mr. Flibble wrote:I am not saying seafoam does not work - rather I am saying that the majority of vehicle additives claims are spurious at best.
Seafoam is not an additive. It is not meant to be used and left in the engine (crankcase), fuel system (continuous use). It's meant to flush the fuel system/crankcase. No more.
Mr. Flibble wrote:I am the sort of person that prefers empirical evidence to anecdotal; so I find it unlikely that it works as claimed.
Proof is in the pudding. 3 out of 6 of my injectors were clogged and the two had horrible spray patterns. A can of seafoam straight into the IP/return blew the tiny deposits out of the injector nozzles. After the 5 min flush, all 6 injectors were atomizing instead of just spraying.

All I am saying in this discussion for seafoam (not additives) is that it works in certain fuel systems very well as a flush.

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Re: Seafoam Discussion

Postby Mr. Flibble » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:19 pm

jfarsang wrote:Seafoam is not an additive. It is not meant to be used and left in the engine (crankcase), fuel system (continuous use). It's meant to flush the fuel system/crankcase. No more.


Agreed, I should have been more clear. By additive I meant something that you add to the vehicle outside of the manufacturers normal maintenance.


jfarsang wrote:Proof is in the pudding. 3 out of 6 of my injectors were clogged and the two had horrible spray patterns. A can of seafoam straight into the IP/return blew the tiny deposits out of the injector nozzles. After the 5 min flush, all 6 injectors were atomizing instead of just spraying.

All I am saying in this discussion for seafoam (not additives) is that it works in certain fuel systems very well as a flush.


Agreed, I am not discounting this possibility, it is entirely possible that it does what it claims to do. I just prefer hard evidence. It could be that the thinner spirits clear the tolerances for the injectors better and thus show a better spray pattern. Likewise, it could work as claimed and remove deposits that are in fact adversely impacting the spray pattern. I just prefer proof.
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Re: Seafoam Discussion

Postby rezdiver » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:54 pm

Seafoam can actually be left in the crankcase and does not have to be flushed :

For the crankcase:

from their website:
http://www.seafoamsales.com/tech-info-diesel-engines/

(For all diesel engines)
Sea Foam Motor Treatment may be used in an oil crankcase 2 separate ways, depending on your needs and expectations. Sea Foam Motor Treatment is most commonly used as a pre-service, old oil residue re-liquefier / cleaner and moisture drier. It can also be used as an after-service oil additive. In either application, Sea Foam Motor Treatment will safely and slowly re-liquefy old oil residue. Each method is described below:

1. As a pre service cleaner in diesel engines, to treat old oil residue, sticky rings or valve train noise. One pint Sea Foam Motor Treatment will treat 2.5 gallons of oil (NOTE: this is different for gasoline engines – see separate tech bulletin.) Drive a MINIMUM of 30 minutes/miles, MAXIMUM 60 minutes/ miles, and then do your oil change service. This begins the process of safely/slowly re liquefying the old oil residue so contaminants may flow and be filtered. This also makes your old oil dirtier, quickly, so a oil change service is necessary when the oil gets dirty. Great for Turbocharged & Supercharged applications where oils deteriorate so quickly due to heat, and leave those residues that NEED CLEANING.

2. As an after service additive into fresh oil, nearly fresh oil, or oil (used condition) that is NOT ready to be changed (based on mileage since last oil change), put the same amount of Sea Foam Motor Treatment into the crankcase as described above, and then regularly monitor your oil for color and clarity. Set a predetermined schedule for checking the oil condition on a mileage, timed, or event basis (like every time you add fuel, etc.) to determine when an oil service is necessary. Monitoring of the oil for color and clarity will tell you when it is time to do an oil change service. NOTE: Do not exceed 3,000 miles without changing the oil.

Sea Foam is safe to use with all synthetic oils. 100% synthetic oils, and blends of synthetic and petroleum-based oils, were engineered and are manufactured to be 100% compatible with petroleum based oils, all brands, and vice/versa. Without this compatibility, oil manufacturers and engineers would be liable for the results of mixing non-compatible lubricants. Since Sea Foam ONLY contains petroleum oils, it is entirely compatible with synthetic oils.

Remember! When Using Sea Foam in Your Crankcase:

•Check your oil and monitor its color & clarity to determine need for a oil change service!
•Change your oil when it gets dirty!
Cheers,
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