Recommendation for brake work

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ilikemax
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Vehicle: '95 L400
Location: Vancouver

Recommendation for brake work

Post by ilikemax » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:49 pm

I have a 1995 L400 PE8W 4M40. It's recently started making some grinding noises, which appear to be coming from the brakes. Any recommendations of a shop or mechanic in or near East Van that could diagnose the issue & provide a repair estimate? The van has a few 'challenges' already and I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to fix the issue or not. I'm happy to pay for an inspection... but the repair will be contingent on the severity of the issue & cost.

thelazygreenfox
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Recommendation for brake work

Post by thelazygreenfox » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:21 pm

Unfortunately there seems no solution for caliper problems on the delicas or garages that have a lasting solution.

The pistons seize in the cast bodies and stick so you drag the brakes on the rotor (noise). Sometimes it's a question of chicken or egg but you end up changing the calipers, rotors, and pads back and front. Only the rotors are proprietary.

List of the problems
Poor quality calipers? Lordco (price) vs Mitsu OEM brake parts price (ouch!)

Older vehicle brake line copper leechs into the brake fluid which becomes an better electrolyte accelerating the caliper piston corrosion! Electrolysis allows the lesser metal (stainless) to be taken first. Stainless in an "air" environment oxidizes to form a stable surface coating but in a liquid or airless environment corrodes faster than many metals.

brake fluid too old? Water in the brake fluid.

No anti static straps to ground? Brakes not bled properly? Back brakes seize causing the fronts to brake harder so the rotors warp.......

All 3 of my delis have had brake problems but so have all my other "older" vehicles. As soon as you feel the pedal being harder to push the problems have started. CCA says change your brake fluid often, CVI lubes the calipers under the boot. IMHO nobody has found a solution but I don't know what it is either. #@%$^
MD :M :M
I've been a lazy brown, green and white fox. :M Moby Dick isn't lazy anymore but what's a "Dick?" :-D

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Shaun Van Ramen
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Recommendation for brake work

Post by Shaun Van Ramen » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:43 pm

Fix it before it gets worse.
Shingo Auto in Burnaby can do the work but you may have to supply the parts.
BAHahahahahahaha

thelazygreenfox
Posts: 862
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:21 am
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Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Location: coquitlam canada

Recommendation for brake work

Post by thelazygreenfox » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:51 am

thanks Shaun
What work did you have done by Shingo?

MD :-D :-D
I've been a lazy brown, green and white fox. :M Moby Dick isn't lazy anymore but what's a "Dick?" :-D

ilikemax
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:50 pm
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Vehicle: '95 L400
Location: Vancouver

Recommendation for brake work

Post by ilikemax » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:56 am

Thanks for the feedback and apologies for taking so long to reply!

Since posting I have watched many youtube videos and read many forum posts both here and other deli sites.

Now that I am an expert ;) I took a stab at the front brakes myself because they seemed easiest to tackle. Front what I can tell, they seem to be functioning properly - pistons move ok, the seals are in decent shape, pins are ok and I replaced the pads with some fancy Raybestos ones from Lordco ($$$).

Problem still exists and it seems like I will need to inspect the rear brakes.

I realize it could be a whole slew of issues like @thelazygreenfox has so eloquently listed. Based on the tools & resources at my disposal here is a list of culprits and my solutions/questions about each:

Rotors - If they need to be replaced, is there anyone local? - rising sun or someone else stock them? who can machine locally if warped?

Calipers/Pistons - I have found replacement pistons online along with a great video of how to easily remove the piston from the caliper. You mentioned getting a replacement caliper from Lordco... Is it fully assembled with pistons, seals etc.? If so, do you know where I can find the part info?

Piston Seals (rebuild kit) - Again, found them online at mitzybitz but wondering if they can be sourced locally?

Brake Pads - this is an easy one but would love some part numbers / brands for sourcing locally at Lordco / Napa / Can Tire

Brake line - Once I get all the mechanical stuff sorted, I plan to bleed the brake lines and feel that I can handle that one fairly easily (thanks youtube & delica forum)

thanks

max

ilikemax
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Location: Vancouver

Recommendation for brake work

Post by ilikemax » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:26 pm

**Update**

It appears as though the rear passenger side caliper (or piston) is seized. I removed the bottom pin but was not able to lift the caliper at all. My guess is that the piston is engaged (or rusted) and holding the caliper on tight. I tried a few taps with the rubber mallet but nothing. I was worried about using more force for fear of accidentally damaging the fluid line or something.

Rear driver side seems fine - piston/seal in good shape, rotor looks OK, pads have plenty of life.

Recommendations on how to remove that stuck caliper??? I thought about bleeding that brake but I don't know if that will remove the pressure forcing it closed... if that is what is actually happening.

ilikemax
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:50 pm
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Vehicle: '95 L400
Location: Vancouver

Recommendation for brake work

Post by ilikemax » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:27 pm

UPDATE #2... for those of you still following along...

After finally prying open the caliper on the rear passenger wheel i discovered the source of the grinding.
I seems like the piston was either fully or partially seized.
The brake pads had worn off all their braking surface and now the metal backer plate was grinding into the rotor (ouch).
The back of the rotor now has very defined grooves worn into it.

Now I'm faced with the question of what to do. I obviously need new pads but am wondering if I should rebuild the piston and get the rotors machined. It looks like MitzyBitz has rebuild kits (seals & bolts) but no pistons.

Where is a good place to find a new piston?
Should I get the rotor machined and if so, where should I take it?
@shawnvanramen, do you know if Shingo has the ability to machine rotors?

DeliTan2
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Recommendation for brake work

Post by DeliTan2 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:56 pm

Assuming you have a diesel, we have the same van (for brake purposes). Considering the level of issues with the caliper, I would suggest getting a rebuild. I hope your rebuild lasts longer than mine (9000 kms). Any of the local Deli dealers can help you, but I recently had RMI send me one. Quick and easy delivery and install (the rear rotor will be more difficult). I have part numbers for front caliper rebuilds but not rear. I hope someone finds the rebuild part number for the rear caliper so it can be done anywhere in Canada or the US by visiting Lordco, Crappy Tire or NAPA.

Any brake shop can turn the rotor if it still has enough meat.

This thread has my recent brake issues, as well as others:
http://www.delica.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=16622

I am building a list of brake parts for my (our) vehicle and will post it when complete. A lot of info on this site but you need to look closely (L400 technical and L400 part numbers)

Good luck

john

thelazygreenfox
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Recommendation for brake work

Post by thelazygreenfox » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:52 pm

Thinner rotors warp faster. Years ago I was told delica rotors are ground by very few places because of the center hub size. A friend of Mardy refaced a front rotor for me but I buy new rotors now. love to hear your experience with this.

The problem with rebuilding calipers lies with replacement rubber components. They are of poor quality and the boots tear shortly after replacement. It's a pita to discover after your hard work rebuilding the caliper and reinstalling it. i never found a good source for the boots.

Febest rubber brake components are junk but most of their other parts are great and cheap too. Check their website out. I replaced all my front end bushings with their parts.

I rebled my entire brake system and reworked the calipers 2 days ago. The drivers side rear was heating up a little so thought it time to change the fluid again. All okay now

John Who did you find to grind your rotors?
thanks
MD :-D :-D
I've been a lazy brown, green and white fox. :M Moby Dick isn't lazy anymore but what's a "Dick?" :-D

DeliTan2
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Vehicle: L400
Location: south interior of BC

Recommendation for brake work

Post by DeliTan2 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:13 am

Hi Lazy;
Long story but I'll make it as short as I can. Got a quote from a Vancouver shop (CVI?) to "do" my brakes. It seemed high but he said the brakes should be good enough for my Mexico trip. Unfortunately wrong. After the beach in March 2013, I drove north through the mountains below Puerto Vallarta with little more than my parking brake (and no AC, grrrr). Found a great shop in Puerto Vallarta who turned all the rotors, replaced all the pads and fixed a stuck caliper. 3 guys working for 3 hours-total cost $220. Mexicans don't care about specs so they turned the discs until they looked good (thin), but it lasted for years.
UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_51f9.jpg
UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_51f9.jpg (114.06 KiB) Viewed 1702 times
A year and a half ago (9000kms later) had all the rotors and pads replaced, can't remember about caliper work (Rising Sun?)

Now that I'm poor(er), and living in the interior, I hope to do all my own work and have been collecting part numbers that I can use locally (wherever I am). I'm sorry to hear Febest are poor quality as I was about to order 4 seal kits for future use.

john

ilikemax
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:50 pm
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Vehicle: '95 L400
Location: Vancouver

Recommendation for brake work

Post by ilikemax » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:06 pm

I ended up sourcing a rebuilt caliper, new rotor and lightly used pads from Rising Sun for a pretty decent price. Picking it all up tomorrow & will let you know how the rebuild goes. I'll check with Stephen to see where he gets the calipers from to help with sourcing in the future.

I've never actually removed an entire caliper or rotor so any tips or links would be much appreciated - especially those that talk about removing the brake line and separating the rotor from the assembly as these are things I have yet to do and make me slightly nervous.

Thanks everyone for all the great feedback so far. This has been super valuable and informative

DeliTan2
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Location: south interior of BC

Recommendation for brake work

Post by DeliTan2 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:19 am

When you remove the brake line from the caliper, have a plan to contain the leak (I didn't).
The less you leak, the less you must replace by bleeding.(DOT 3 or 4)
Maybe a TyWrap and a balloon, condom, finger cut from a latex glove(?). Don't bother trying with electrical tape; doesn't work.

good luck and let us know...

john

thelazygreenfox
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Recommendation for brake work

Post by thelazygreenfox » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:33 pm

Max phone all the Lordco look a likes , some are cheaper for calipers. Wescan Coquitlam was the cheapest last year.

John See my brake kit pic w 1/4" ID vinyl hose, metal rod heated to vinyl melting temp, needle nose pliers to squeeze and seal vinyl hose. Also 3/8- 7/16 brake tubing wrench and (missing) an 8mm open end wrench for light opening and closing brake bleeds.
brake tools3.jpg
brake tools3.jpg (146.27 KiB) Viewed 1642 times
Heat the metal rod red and insert it in the vinyl tube (pliers side) and squeeze w needle nose pliers to seal. Slip it on the brake line ends after removal. Saves a lot of mess.

I rounded brake tubing fittings often till I used a brake bleed wrench. Make sure when you buy your caliper that it has freely moving tubing and bleed threads. 3 times I've had to tap out a "new" caliper inlet thread. Capital PITA.....

I bleed my brake lines often. It's cheaper than replacing calipers.

laugh at your mistakes, everyone has to learn somewhere
Wayne :-D :-D
I've been a lazy brown, green and white fox. :M Moby Dick isn't lazy anymore but what's a "Dick?" :-D

ilikemax
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:50 pm
Member's Photo Album: http://www.delica.ca/Photos/
Vehicle: '95 L400
Location: Vancouver

Recommendation for brake work

Post by ilikemax » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:31 pm

Wayne, that is a genius contraption for the brake line! My solution was far less...elegant... or effective for that matter :/

New caliper, pads & rotor installed. Brake line bled and voila! No More Grinding :) Brakes feel a bit soft but I probably have to do another round of bleeding as this was my first go and I likely didn't do it 100%.

Thanks again for everyone's help. This has been an incredible learning.

DeliTan2
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:26 am
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Vehicle: L400
Location: south interior of BC

Recommendation for brake work

Post by DeliTan2 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:23 am

Thanx Lazy Wayne (I bet I'm lazier);

I like the idea of making brake line caps with vinyl hose. I'll try that next time.

I have my own brake bleeding system and tools package, as I bleed the brakes and clutches in several motorcycles each spring.
Two of them have a design flaw that traps a bubble of air that is almost impossible to avoid (I have a plan).

For those who bleed the same vehicle "often", these are awesome...
http://www.speedbleeder.com/main.htm

john

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