Diesel Moot

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What Diesel Do You Use?

Chevron
5
9%
PetroCan
8
15%
Shell
3
6%
Shell V Power
3
6%
Husky/Mohawk Diesel Max
6
11%
Esso/Imperial Oil
1
2%
Co-op
3
6%
Other
13
24%
Don't Care
12
22%
 
Total votes: 54

philmeup1
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Re: Diesel Moot

Postby philmeup1 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:28 pm

As I posted in the survey, I've never really cared where I buy me diesel from. But after seeing the results of the poll and everything I've read on here, Shell looks pretty good. Since I'm mechanically declined, I would appreciate a fuel that actually might help prevent future breakdowns and is better for my engine (if it actually does that)

And in theory, that would even trump better mileage as my repair costs can be expensive. I live in Ontario and have a friend who's a master mechanic at my local VW dealer working on it. That right there is $100 bucks an hour all day long... He's really good though. And not afraid to work on my van.

I'm also adding Stanadyne to the fuel as recomended by a few folks on here. I've now owned my van for almost 2 years now and I've really only had one major repair and that was fixing my leaky injector pump. We did the water pump, timing belt, ect while it was all apart. Since then, I've driven it like a new car....

I love reading all the stuff on here. I've always tried to be as proactive as possible when it comes to the maintenance of my van. I'm quite certain I'm the only Delica driver here in Peterborough...

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Big-Bird
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Re: Diesel Moot

Postby Big-Bird » Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:54 pm

As a rule I use Petro Canada diesel. I work for Suncor and know about the fuel additives that are used in our fuel. Oddly enough there are already lubrication additives that meets todays stringent emmisions requirements for 15ppm of sulphur content. The auto industry has had the biggest impact on fuel formulations. Some really cool stuff being done by all the refinery locales in Canada.
Yeah I joined the Dark Side because the medical plan is top shelf!

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naterade
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Re: Diesel Moot

Postby naterade » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:17 pm

Fill at Husky so I can get CAA dollars towards my AMA membership

Started using Liquid Muscle on long hauls, I like how it makes my engine run 8-)

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silverfox441
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Re: Diesel Moot

Postby silverfox441 » Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:13 pm

I use Jet-A. it's free for me so i don't care about mileage. I get about 11ish/100km.

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FalcoColumbarius
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Re: Diesel Moot

Postby FalcoColumbarius » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:47 am

silverfox441 wrote:I use Jet-A. it's free for me so i don't care about mileage. I get about 11ish/100km.

For real? You power your Starwagon with gas turbine engines? There is a difference between diesel 1 (kerosene, paraffin, jet fuel, stove fuel, &c.) and diesel 2 ~ lubricity. Diesel 2, what goes into trucks has a lubricant that lubricates the injector pump. If you have no lubricity in the fuel the injector pump doesn't get lubricated.

Falco.
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silverfox441
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Re: Diesel Moot

Postby silverfox441 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:22 pm

I'm aware of the different types of fuels as it is my trade. And i heard that soooooooo many times. We've use jet-a in all our refueling trucks at the airport for decades and in my Benz for quite a while, in my L300 for months. You can run a lot of different fuels in a diesel engine with the infamous exception of any modern diesel equipped american pickup truck. The electronic fuel injection system and the pump unit are to sensitive. Any diesel with a mechanical fuel injection system should be able to run kerosene, diesel, cooking oil, bunk oil. Whatever. A diesel engine is a true multi-fuel engine. You raised a point: lubricity. Yes Jet fuels have a tad less lubricity. To counter this and mostly to be on the safe side, i drop a bit of transmission oil (DextronIII) in the mix. Transmission oil was also used to clean a engine with carbon built up in the good old days. You would drop it directly in the carb as you were revving the motor. An other draw back with jet fuel is a bit less power and a bit less millage. I never saw a real difference and even if there was, i don't pay for it so i don't care. For those who wonder, i don't steal it. We dispose of about 14000 litres of fuel each year for various reasons; maintenance (which i'm in charge of) and sampling. We are not allowed to put any fuel removed from a unit back into a aircraft. Period. Plenty of it goes in the road tanks of all our units. Some in Chris's large diesel boat (your welcome Chris) some in my cars.
There you have it.

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FalcoColumbarius
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Re: Diesel Moot

Postby FalcoColumbarius » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:30 pm

Cool. How much Dextron III do you put in per tank full (75 litres)?
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silverfox441
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Re: Diesel Moot

Postby silverfox441 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:44 pm

I'd say about 1/8 of quart and i'm most likely overdoing it. A point i forgot to mention; jet-A contains a fair amount of sulfur, about 1000 ppm. Sulfur is a great lubricant which is why jet fuel is not that dry. But it is also why most modern american made diesel engine are so intolerant to it. In all fairness, probably most newer diesel that requires ultra-low sulfur. The reason for this is the new anti-pollution specs from 2007 onward. It also is the reason some sort of lubricant is added to ultra low sulfur diesel. We have one unit, an '08, and the engine is crap. it"s the only unit we can't use jet-a in it due that very reason: anti-pollution system. Basically, companies were asked to make a poodle out of a bulldog. You take an engine that is able to run on all kinds of fuels and that, unfortunately, pollutes quite a bit as result of it's design and try to turn it into a green machine and the results were predictable. That's why i own cars with a good ol' diesel with mechanical injection and preferably, with a pre-combustion chamber. The will run on just about anything.

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FalcoColumbarius
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Re: Diesel Moot

Postby FalcoColumbarius » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:08 pm

Wow, how do I get to work for you! I remember LSD was 500 PPM and ULSD is 15 PPM. Sounds like you're pretty much using the diesel that these engines were designed for. I was always told that diesel 1 had no lubricity, yet 1000 PPM sounds pretty slippery.

What are your opinions regarding the various suppliers? Which ones do you deal with at the airport? And why on Earth do they dispose of fuel? Does it get contaminated during the process?

I just refuelled ~ second tank of Shell V Power Diesel. This time it was $1.55 a litre and 5¢ more than the regular Shell ULSD. The last time I fuelled it was 62 litres of the V Power Diesel into 13 litres of PetroCan, which worked out to 8.3 kliks to the litre. This was very good considering not only was it city miles but it was a gruelling week of gridlock and idle traffic. As the V Power comes with it's own additives I did not and any, myself. I have contacted Shell, whom assured me that they use only the finest ingredients ~ I gave the guy some very specific questions and he took my e-mail addy telling me that that a fuel specialist will contact me. We shall see.

Falco.
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silverfox441
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Re: Diesel Moot

Postby silverfox441 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:42 pm

Well, we get our jet -a straight from the fuel farm at YVR so that stuff is from a lot of different sources, mostly from Edmonton and the USA.

In a nutshell, every morning before a refueling unit is brought into service, be it a truck or a tanker trailer, samples have to be taken for quality insurance purposes. it could be anywhere between 20 to as much as 80 liters per unit depending on size and contamination by water if such is the case. Last year i had to flush 4000 liters out of a particular unit due to heavy contamination. (some one lung SOB forgot a hatch open on top). Now ANY sample removed by ANY means cannot be put back in the unit for ANY reason whatsoever. It's a safety precaution. Add fuel flushed out for maintenance purposes and the numbers will go up quickly.

I'll tell you, we don't even add transmission oil to any of our trucks and same goes to some of our customers that use jet-a in their diesel ground power units. We even have a customer, who operates logging helicopters, that uses jet-a with their heavy equipment (skidders, loaders ect). Nobody ever had any issues. I had dextronIII to my personal car for peace of mind and because dextronIII will keep carbon built up in check. I don't even have to pay for DextronIII but that's another story.

As far the difference between suppliers, they are virtually the same as you need to make sure that an operator will have the exact same type of fuel wherever he goes. You will have customers with specific requirements tho.

You can come work for us if: you have an airport pass, you are a qualified aircraft fueller, you have a class3, if you can convince Rick to take his retirement (good luck with that).

Preference given to candidates who: have a class1, have a pilot licence (3 of us including me), have experience with staging, can convince Rick to take his retirement. :-D

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FalcoColumbarius
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Re: Diesel Moot

Postby FalcoColumbarius » Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:48 am

Well, I painted the old Time Air hanger, over on the south side (used to be part of the main terminal, once upon a time), all the corrugated metal sheathing was painted with multi component aircraft paint and delivered though an airless sprayer. One of the most bizarre jobs I've done. On one particularly windy day I had just finished spraying out the north end, which was a brick tower type structure with these multi-floor window assemblies that had to be masked off, as they were not going blue. Across from this face was a pen full of aeroplanes, of which one (I think) Convair was running. The wind had caught the bottom of the mask and was slowly lifting it off the surface, toward the running plane. My thoughts cringed at the thought of all that poly drifting into the airscrew. I told some of the ground crew what was happening but they didn't seem to give much attention to the matter, it was like a bad dream. By the time I had scrambled from the de-icer basket onto the roof, most of the mask was airborne and tethered only by the top mask, reaching out with great passion toward the plane. I managed to grab hold of the of the mask and bundled it in like a sail on my butt with my feet wedged against the wall top to stop myself from becoming airborne! Then there was the de-icer truck: Most of the job had been done off of a scissor lift but there was this one area that had an eave that the scissor lift couldn't work with. So I managed to get the use of a de-icer truck (with a cherry picker basket). The truck was parked in amongst wings. I told the ground crew where I needed it placed and they told me "okay, the keys are in the ignition". Really? You want me to drive it through that maze of wings? Well, I did, and without touching any wings. Those were the days ~ before any terrorist threats!

I digress.

I talked to a guy in Houston Texas about Shell "top tier" fuels, he was a nice guy. He pointed me in the direction of the Canadian General Standards Board and in particular "CGSB-3.6-2010" which turns out will cost me sixty bucks to download. This isn't going to happen right away. He mentioned the use of a High Frequency Reciprocating Rig for measuring lubricity and that they go beyond the Canadian conventions, &c.. We also talked about about some of the hypocrisies of the new conventions in both the fuel and paint industries.

This was an awful lot of information for a fuel noob like myself to digest in one sitting so he gave me an e-mail addy for when I thought up more questions. That's where I'm at right now.

Falco.
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Shaun Van Ramen
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Re: Diesel Moot

Postby Shaun Van Ramen » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:36 pm

I've got my class 2 and use to hang out near the south terminal (Cypress Coach Lines) - I've flown in a Cessna 151 to Arizona and back (unqualified co-pilot) and lots of jet airliners.

Does that qualify?

Oh, and I also have an L300 :)
BAHahahahahahaha

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silverfox441
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Re: Diesel Moot

Postby silverfox441 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:20 pm

Hmmmm. We might have an opening in September. You think you can get a airport pass? That's what bugs the boss the most, the &*&^$ airport pass.

Cypress Coach parks right beside us, have i seen you before??

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Shaun Van Ramen
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Re: Diesel Moot

Postby Shaun Van Ramen » Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:33 pm

Haven't driven for them in the last year and a bit. I will look into an airport pass. P.M. me with a job description to see if I even qualify.
BAHahahahahahaha

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FalcoColumbarius
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Re: Diesel Moot

Postby FalcoColumbarius » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:11 pm

Just an update: I've gone from the Shell V-Power diesel to the Shell ULSD+Howes Diesel Treat. I find that the mileage is a little better and the engine runs smoother and quieter. Having said that ~ at the same time I changed my oil over from LiquiMoly semi synth 15W40 to Total Quartz 9000 full synth 5W40, which I'm sure has a bearing on engine performance. I think the V-Power Diesel is better suited to a newer style of motor.

Falco.
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