Glow Plugs - Again

Mitsubishi Delica L400 production commenced in 1994 -- After much anticipation, the L400 arrived on Canadian Soil in 2009!
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Mr. Flibble
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Glow Plugs - Again

Post by Mr. Flibble » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:20 am

There are tons of posts on Glow Plugs in the forum, which makes it difficult to search for specifics!

I am trying to identify the OEM glowplugs used by Mitsubishi - the Oz forum recommends the Bosch 119's, but they seem cheaper. I remember something about some NGK's. I do know that there are Hyundai Glow Plugs out there for cheaper, but I would prefer something more like the OEM model.

Why do I say all this?

My Delica has difficulty starting below 10 Celsius, it feels like it is misfiring on some cylinders. Once it runs for a bit and stops coughing white smoke, it runs just fine. I have tried feathering the throttle to keep my RPM's at 1000 while starting - but I can still feel some misfiring, so, I suspect I have 1 or 2 bad plugs.

I have a multimeter somewhere, but I am a little sketchy on the directions for testing the plugs with it. I could take the plugs out and test them against the battery if I had the leads to do so, but I currently don't.

So, how do I use my multimeter to test the plugs, and, what are the "standard" OEM Mitsu plugs as I seem to get different answers from different places.
Canadian living in Washington USA

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Re: Glow Plugs - Again

Post by chris » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:13 pm

"Standard value" appears to be 0.5 ohms from page 11 A 1 2 of the 4M40 manual.
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Re: Glow Plugs - Again

Post by jessef » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:07 pm

The absolute best way to get the most out of your glowplugs is to remove the bus bar and splice a 10-14gauge wire from the main one to each glow plug.

This way each one gets the proper voltage always.

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Re: Glow Plugs - Again

Post by tonydca » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:52 pm

According to Butch at CVI, the Hyundai OEM plugs are what they use for their 4M40-equipped vehicles world-wide. I have been using them for a while now, and they work perfectly. Rated for 11V systems (as opposed to 6V or 24V ones):

From a previous post:


***********************************

New glow plugs - all is well.

My symptoms were:

- The engine would always "catch" and start firing on the first or second crank.
- If the vehicle was stored underground (+15 degC) or if it was outside at or above +15 degC, no problems. Didn't matter how long it sat cold. This is why I primarily thought glow plugs, since I understand that a leaky IP seal would let in some air overnight and you'd have a rough start no matter the temperature.
- The colder, the more worster-er it got. But the lumpy idle was always rhythmically-lumpy. Like the same cylinder(s) had issues. Again, points to one or more plugs on their way out.

So if you're trying to diagnose, see if you can store your beast in the warm for a day or so (or leave the block heater on) and see if she starts up right away. If so, I'd suspect plugs over IP.

But if you have changed your plugs to no avail, I am beginning to suspect that not all glow plugs are created equal.

I had months ago tried a set of HKT plugs part # CP-05, and they were absolute garbage (for me). I went back to a set of used plugs of unknown origin (off an imported van - I could find no replacements at the time), and they served me fine until recently.

Butch at CVI gave me a set of Hyundai OEM plugs for their 4M40 vehicle (Hyundai Mobus part # Y722JS), and the tip was slightly (1mm?) longer than my dying ones. Butch assured me they fit, and tho' I held my breath when I first turned it over with the new plugs, no problems.

I can't help but wonder that industry-wide, if glow plugs use a common thread size, then making a plug that 's a bit on the short side will allow them to be used in a wider range of vehicles, but not optimized perhaps for ours.

At any rate, I can vouch for these plugs:, and I'm a happy boy.

Tony.
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Re: Glow Plugs - Again

Post by MardyDelica » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:55 am

hi, tony,
hyundai dont produce 4m40 only mitsubishi.
i went to korea & they dont have 4m40 engine. just to clarrify this to you.
they only have 2.5 liter same as the 4d56.
what butch give to you & other people buying this hyundai glow plug that will fit 4m40 as you & other think its o.k.
this is just temporary solution: as you see the hyundai glow plug is longer than the original mitsubishi glow plug.
actually the hyundai glow plug is longer than original one, one mistake when this glow plug tip goes then it hit the piston then you will have big problem towards your engine.
people ask me about this but for me to used it i wont used it as its way too long & not the right fit for this engine. othe people think its o.k. but for me its not as the engine is more expensive than glow plug.
there much be some reason why the glow plug wont last long. maybe the relay wont shot off rightaway.
that why its always stay on longer all the time. so relay & ecu might be major contribution to this problem.
i think most of the problem goes to relay, glow plug lead post & ecu.
as the way engine is set up in the winter including the timing & turbo as we are on higher elevation than japan.
i think the best way to do is that when it reach 10 or 5 degree use a little bit heat from block heater.
i know its a little bit pain but it think this will help reduce the problem.
white smoke is normal to this as even me still trying maybe what will be the best turbo boost setting to compensate the high level elevation here in canada.
in asia no problem. but here little bit complicated. but not all spacegear have this problem.
this is just my opinion still trying to figure it out this problem not easy
cheers;
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Re: Glow Plugs - Again

Post by Mr. Flibble » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:28 pm

Awesome post chris! That will let me go over the plugs with my meter.

This thread now brings us to the question of appropriate plugs, because there seems to be some debate. (I like Jessee's idea of changing out the bus bar).

The Aussies seem to like the Bosch 119 glow plugs (those in NZ do not). The Brits like the NGK CY55 (as the CY05 is no longer available apparently)...

I believe that the NGK CY05 is now only available directly from Mitsubishi as they are the factory glow plugs but not marked with NGK but Mitsubishi...

So, what seem to be the best plugs then according to Canadians for the L400? The Genuine Mitsubishi plugs?
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Re: Glow Plugs - Again

Post by jessef » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:06 pm

Genuine Mitsubishi NGKCY05 - :M

Like Mardy said.

Genuine Mitsubishi L400 plugs are for the Mitsubishi L400 Spacegear engine 4M40 2.8L

Genuine Hyundai 'L400 labeled' plugs are meant for the Hyundai Starex engine 4D56/T (same as 2.5L L300)

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Re: Glow Plugs - Again

Post by tonydca » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:09 am

For the record, I asked a guy over in Japan to look into the cost of Mitsu OEM plugs, and he claimed the dealer was quoting him Y31,000 (around CAD$380) for a set of 4, in Japan.

From the UK site, NGK CY55's seem to be the plug of choice for 4m40s over there, and cost similar ballpark (shipped) from the UK as the Hyundai ones here (around CAD$130 for a set).

To be fair, I was getting desperate for a set and opted for the Hyundai ones because they were right here right now. If I had a bit more time, I would have probably tried the CY55s instead, but the Hyundai ones work fine with no mechanical interference problems (my biggest concern).

Time will tell how well they last...
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Re: Glow Plugs - Again

Post by tonydca » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:39 am

I am generally a believer in OEM parts, and glow plugs are no exception. But for 3x the cost, I thought I'd try something else first, and use OEM as a fallback.

I have never seen an original OEM 4M40 plug, so I can't comment if the Hyundai ones are too long. I would not have tried the Hyundai ones had I not had assurances that others had tried them before with no interference problems. As plugs wear, I can't see them growing in length, so I believe if they are not too long now, they will continue to be so indefinitely.

I *have* however seen plugs branded as 4M40 replacement parts which are noticeably *shorter* then the Hyundai ones (notably HKT CP-05 plugs). If a plug is too short, it can still fit in the engine fine, but will likely not work nearly as well, as the hot tip will be retracted further up into the head away from the cylinder. This seemed to be the case for me with the HKT's - did not work well at all.

I once ran a Honda engine with spark plugs that were 1/4" too short; they fit in the engine fine but it ran like crap until I found the problem.

I'm sure it is in HKTs (and any manufacturer's) interest to be able to have their own plugs fit as wide a range of engines as possible, even if they are not optimized for any one in particular.

All I know is that the Hyundai ones seem to fit and work fine in my 4M40.

And as far as startup smoke goes, Mardy sold me a great van with a well-maintained engine that burns no oil (good compression), and he checked the timing and changed the fuel and air filters before I got it.

Now with clean injectors, 5W40 oil, leak=free IP, new glow plugs and a clean bus-bar, it starts in the damp cold near 0degC first crank every time, with barely even a hint of white on the first crank.

So a smoke-free 4M40 is possible, even in cooler weather, but it does need to be in proper tune.
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Re: Glow Plugs - Again

Post by Pacific JDM Parts » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:17 pm

MardyDelica wrote: actually the hyundai glow plug is longer than original one, one mistake when this glow plug tip goes then it hit the piston then you will have big problem towards your engine.
;
This needs to be cleared up before people start to worry that there glow plugs are hitting there pistons!!!
The 4M40 engine is an indirect injection design and has a pre chamber which the injector sprays in to which also has the glow plug tip inside so if the glow plug is too long it would hit the pre chamber and not the piston unless the tip breaks off and falls in to the cylinder.
The price for the OEM glow plugs is just way too much to even consider.
I would highly recommend the NGK CY55 glow plugs as already posted they have been used in the U.K for many years with everyone who's using them very happy.
Unfortunately NGK Canada has never sold the CY55 here and will not be selling them in the future.
I have stopped selling the HTK and Blue Print glow plugs as there seems to be a difference in the quality from batch to batch.
I am interested to see how the Hyundai glow plugs hold up.
Please post up your findings with the Hyundai plugs.

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Re: Glow Plugs - Again

Post by MardyDelica » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:53 am

hi, paul.
i am trying to clear this up:
if you measure the length of the original of the OEM glow plug 4m40 & at the same time look & measure the one for hyundai glow plug that fit starex not 4m40 its longer.
as hyundai dont produce 4m40 engine:
when a glow plug is longer than the oem one thru my suggestion there will be effect later on when it gets older plug.
mitsubishi does design the limit of the length of the glow plug.so avoid this problem. in theory if they want longer same as hyundai they will do that but there is a purpose on that thats why they design it a little bit short:
as per tony say you just try your best thats all.
i just dont want people to mislead that this is the same & can well fit it for longer times as the glow plug seems to get old & the consequenses will be there towards the broken engine. on ebroken tip glow plug then your engien need to be fix not easy.
this is just my opinion anybody can do whatever they want to put what type of glow plug they want.
hope this help:
Cheers;
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Re: Glow Plugs - Again

Post by Pacific JDM Parts » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:26 am

I do not sell the Hyundai parts so i do not know about there parts numbers and listings so i can not comment on applications.
If there sold as direct replacements then the seller must be confident in there application.
I just wanted to make sure that people who have no mechanical knowledge who rely on the posts of Importers and Repair specialists on the forum that they are not damaging there engines after installing glow plugs due to wrong information.
You posted that the longer glow plugs will hit the pistons which anyone with any understanding of the 4M40 engine that this is imposable due to its pre chamber design.
What brand of glow plugs do you install Mardy?

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Re: Glow Plugs - Again

Post by Pacific JDM Parts » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:35 pm

MardyDelica wrote: white smoke is normal to this as even me still trying maybe what will be the best turbo boost setting to compensate the high level elevation here in canada.;
Sorry for filling up this thread again but i am also curious as to how adjusting the turbo boost pressure helps with cold starting issues?
Could you please explain this Mardy?

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Re: Glow Plugs - Again

Post by MardyDelica » Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:12 am

hi, paul,
sorry dont know yet that why i say trying to figure it out. i think uk is in lower level than canada.
its like car racing engine with turbo. if your in the lower state like california you have to adjust it. thne when your in edmonton you have to adjust it also to compensate the higher elevation of where they used this engine with turbo.
thats why for now dont know yet. i am just trying my best to figure this one out problem for this 4m40 engine when the weather is cold.
i have to try & sell whatever help i can do to make it work better\;
UK & canada has different elevation;
so not all the timing & set up of this engine will be the same mostly when the weather is cold here in canada.
hope i answer your question
Cheers;
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Re: Glow Plugs - Again

Post by tonydca » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:30 pm

One other detail to point out. The Hyundai plug *was* a fair bit longer than the one I removed, but most of that excess length was in the body of the plug; i.e. it sticks up further out of the head.

This is not important to the operation of the plug; it is the length of the piece sticking *into* the engine that you really need to be concerned about, and the two were virtually the same, only about 1mm longer on the Hyundai plug.
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