Injector Exchange

Mitsubishi Delica L400 production commenced in 1994 -- After much anticipation, the L400 arrived on Canadian Soil in 2009!
tinykiss
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Re: Injector Exchange

Post by tinykiss »

jfarsang wrote:
tinykiss wrote:Been reading this forum.... So far the best information seems to come from Steven... Good info man...

TK
Tim, do you have results to post with Hyundai 4D56T injectors in your L400? How much mileage have you logged.. how are the nozzles.. how is the IP..

Reza, there is a variation large enough to warrant complaints in the past years about the longevity of one manufacturer compared to another for both plugs and nozzles. ie. 4M40 nozzles from China lasted 4 months. Never again.

Given that over in UK, Australia and Russia, no one has heard of anyone using Steven's Hyundai 4D56T injectors in a 4M40 L400/Paj engine, I take into consideration 15+ years of global experience over less than 2 years of a dealer who is experimenting.

Without data to back up longevity and engine testing, this thread will go around in circles.
I am surprised Mardy or CVI don't know this as I have seen people claiming they are the best, but as you pointed out the UK doesn't know Hyundai products that well.

MD196607 ( late 4D56, currently available in Korea ) and ME200204 (mechanical 4M40) all have the same injection spray angle degree (10), the same throttle type nozzle, the same holder type (screw on), and same breaking power (15,000-16,000kpa, 150-160kg/cm2, 2133-2276psi).

Hopefully this helps...

TK
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RichD
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Re: Injector Exchange

Post by RichD »

The fact of the matter is that there are a lot more people with experience with these vehicles in Vancouver area than Antigonish (lovely place, btw. Visited on a recent road trip with my L300.)

What we're seeing out there in the field is a lot of owners and mechanics describing failures involving Hyundai parts. This includes apparently identical parts like gaskets. So it is fair to be scrutinizing the use of these in critical applications.
tinykiss
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Re: Injector Exchange

Post by tinykiss »

Antigonish is lovely isn't it.. :-D ....Not much to do but nice...To suggest one isn't knowledgeable because of location is confusing. I will agree there will likely be more people on the West that have more knowledge than on the East because of popularity in the West.

The thing is they did not know that 4D56 delica has two different injectors depending on model year.

1986/4 – 1994/5 ( MD103301 ) ; 12,000-13,000 kpa or 120-130kg/cm2
1994/6 – 2004/4 ( MD196607 ) ; 15,000-16,000 kpa or 150-160kg/cm2 (this is the same as 4M40 injector)

Very intersting

TK
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RichD
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Re: Injector Exchange

Post by RichD »

Apologies for calling shenanigans.
Last edited by RichD on Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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thedjjack
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Re: Injector Exchange

Post by thedjjack »

Wow the learning curve is fast in Antigonish...Congratulations in three post you have gone from a person with admittedly no mechanical knowledge to what I would call an expert on spray patterns and breaking pressure of diesel injectors. Congratulations on your expertise on diesel injections systems...I am very impressed (no sarcasm or offense meant by this post I am truly impressed).

Here is your post three post prior to the ones in the injector thread today!
tinykiss wrote:Hello
Sorry for being a newbie here. I was trying to find a simple explanation of how the 4wd system works. I have no mechanical knowledge and to be honest don't care what part moves where to lock/unlock this or that as I don't understand it anyway....at least not yet.....

Can someone tell me what each of the options are/do.

2H (rear wheel drive obviously)

4H

4HLc

4LLc

What does each do and how to use them and not abuse them. Can I transfer on the fly from 2 to 4 and at what max speed and into which gears? I assume if I can that only into 4H correct?

Oh and also the A/T mode button. I think it has to do mostly with towing or slowing in bad weather....

Thank you for your help......
TK
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delicat
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Re: Injector Exchange

Post by delicat »

Arghhhh frack, im out of Popcorn! Can you guys hold on 'till I'm back from the grocery store? :twisted:

:friday:
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jessef
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Re: Injector Exchange

Post by jessef »

irrelivant
Last edited by jessef on Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tinykiss
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Re: Injector Exchange

Post by tinykiss »

I love this..... No I am not Steven...haha.

I have been very busy studying Delicas as from my other posts you can see I had very little knowledge. Being in Antigonish with no one knowing anything about them and after having run into many issues with my L300 and L400, I have had to get very hands on the past year (had the L300 for 2 years and the L400 for a year and have had more issues with the L400). Some of my postings were to just confirm things I already knew but wanted to make sure. Sometimes it's the easy things that stump you ;)

I have always enjoyed learning new things and I suppose that has helped me figure things out quickly. I do hope to sell these rigs in Nova Scotia one day so want to get as much knowledge about them as I can so when asked what some would consider a stupid or newbie question, I have the answer for them.

If you don't have an answer....find it and that's what I have been doing a lot of :-)

This is the only post that I will make to defend myself.

Cheers fellow lovers ('_')

TK
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FalcoColumbarius
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Re: Injector Exchange

Post by FalcoColumbarius »

Like, wow...... You guys really miss Steven don't you...

Is it possible that someone else has an opinion?
And could it be all right if that opinion doesn't necessarily jive with your own?
Just a thought, you know?

If you hear an opinion and you don't agree with it...
perhaps practice one's dialectic skills and have a sensible dialogue ~
in the end we can all agree to disagree on some points.

Okay?

Falco.
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thedjjack
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Re: Injector Exchange

Post by thedjjack »

FalcoColumbarius wrote:Like, wow...... You guys really miss Steven don't you...

Is it possible that someone else has an opinion?
And could it be all right if that opinion doesn't necessarily jive with your own?
Just a thought, you know?

If you hear an opinion and you don't agree with it...
perhaps practice one's dialectic skills and have a sensible dialogue ~
in the end we can all agree to disagree on some points.

Okay?

Falco.
I agree that we never all agree...

but to be honest I think this injector thing needs investigated. Someone needs to confirm that these injectors are work in the 4M40 motor.... A source for published spray patterns, threads, breaking pressures, and if possible a cross reference for using in the 4M40 to replace stock injectors is needed. Or an independent injector house comparing the injectors. I know that if you have your injectors rebuilt most injector re-builders require the numbers off the injector pump (so two motors same year will be setup differently)

I truly believe that putting these injectors in replacing old injectors improves mileage and performance (over stock injectors not functioning). But I am not convinced by the evidence given that they are the injectors for the 4M40 applications.

This discussion (respectful discussion) is important. Are these ok in the 4m40 long term (I hope this is the case...please please please lets see some solid published sources or independent testing).

Cheers
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jessef
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Re: Injector Exchange

Post by jessef »

Rising Sun Auto Import wrote:You might have missed there are two different injectors that were used in L300 ( 4D56T ) based on manufacture’s year.
1986/4 – 1994/5 ( MD103301 ) ; 12,000-13,000 kpa or 120-130kg/cm3
1994/6 – 2004/4 ( MD196607 ) ; 15,000-16,000 kpa or 150-160kg/cm3[/b]

We know part mumber for 4M40 injector is ME200204.

MD196607 ( late 4D56, currently available in Korea ) and ME200204 ( mechanical 4M40 ) all have same injection spray angle degree ( 10 ), same throttle type nozzle and same holder type (screw on ) and same breaking power ( 15,000-16,000kpa, 150-160kg/cm3, 2133-2276psi ).
tinykiss wrote:I am surprised Mardy or CVI don't know this as I have seen people claiming they are the best, but as you pointed out the UK doesn't know Hyundai products that well.

MD196607 ( late 4D56, currently available in Korea ) and ME200204 (mechanical 4M40) all have the same injection spray angle degree (10), the same throttle type nozzle, the same holder type (screw on), and same breaking power (15,000-16,000kpa, 150-160kg/cm2, 2133-2276psi).

Hopefully this helps...
tinykiss wrote:The thing is they did not know that 4D56 delica has two different injectors depending on model year.

1986/4 – 1994/5 ( MD103301 ) ; 12,000-13,000 kpa or 120-130kg/cm2
1994/6 – 2004/4 ( MD196607 ) ; 15,000-16,000 kpa or 150-160kg/cm2 (this is the same as 4M40 injector)

Very intersting
Hi Tim

A few points. This is following Falco's advise on constructive criticism.

Non-technical:

Your assumption that Mardy or CVI's ignorance is not applicable here, nor is hearsay that people are saying Hyundai is the best. Those two points are brought up by Steven in arguments and you have never brought up either since you have joined. Just today.

The reason why people are thinking you are either Steven or are posting on behalf of Steven is because your only two posts in this thread are written the same way as his. None of your previous posts in the past year are written this way. People recognize this.

Technical:

What I said about the UK, Australia and Russian owners not using Steven's Hyundai 4D56T injectors in 4M40's is clear. Those countries are familiar with Hyundai parts. No one has documentation or confirmation that this Hyundai part from a 4D56T engine works exactly like the OEM Mitsubishi design for the 4M40.

To say that it does without provide any hard data or logged miles to prove it will be contested as we are talking about a fuel delivery component, not an oil filter. Precision is different.

Given your experience, would you be able to give some technical data as per my earlier question please:
jfarsang wrote:Tim, do you have results to post with Hyundai 4D56T injectors in your L400? How much mileage have you logged.. how are the nozzles.. how is the IP..
FalcoColumbarius wrote:Is it possible that someone else has an opinion?
Opinions were left at the 1st page. We are into technical first-hand experience and longevity testing for these Hyundai possible replacement injectors.

Unknown: what long-term effects, if any at all, the injectors Steven is using in his/his customer's 4M40 engines.

I have enquired on UK/Oz/Russian forums and there is not one single response from 1+ person who has either heard or used the injector that Steven has been using here in Canada for less than 2 years without any supportive documentation.

Opinions and people defending others has no positive relevance to this tech thread.
Last edited by jessef on Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rezdiver
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Re: Injector Exchange

Post by rezdiver »

Jesse Wrote:
"Reza, there is a variation large enough to warrant complaints in the past years about the longevity of one manufacturer compared to another for both plugs and nozzles. ie. 4M40 nozzles from China lasted 4 months. Never again."


Jesse,
i googled the injectors and found a few discussions on russian websites regarding the injector compatibility. too bad i cant read russian.

you mentioned complaints in the last year but those complaints are not directed to the injectors we are discussing..
Cheers,
Reza
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jessef
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Re: Injector Exchange

Post by jessef »

Unless someone can show that these injectors are identical and have ran them with no issues in terms of longevity then this whole thread will go around in circles and should be capped.

Below is taken from the service manual.

Part number, torque specs are different.

Even the chinese nozzles I tried out came with 2 different part numbers. One for 4D56T 1995+ and one for 4M40 1996+

As for mentioning Mardy and CVI, there is probably a good reason why they only use the 4M40 injector that is specified by Mitsubishi and not Hyundai as they do not make the 4M40 engine.
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rezdiver
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Re: Injector Exchange

Post by rezdiver »

jfarsang wrote:Unless someone can show that these injectors are identical and have ran them with no issues in terms of longevity then this whole thread will go around in circles and should be capped.

Below is taken from the service manual.

Part number, torque specs are different.

Even the chinese nozzles I tried out came with 2 different part numbers. One for 4D56T 1995+ and one for 4M40 1996+

As for mentioning Mardy and CVI, there is probably a good reason why they only use the 4M40 injector that is specified by Mitsubishi and not Hyundai as they do not make the 4M40 engine.

This is what Steven is doing, give it time with the experiment and see what the outcome is. nobody said for everyone to use these, he is experimenting with them and if it works in the long run, then as delica owners there is a new part on the market to choose from. if it doesnt work then Steven can take care of his customers and warranty work.

Mardy and CVI are probably not doing it because this is the first they have heard of it being used in this application. just because no one is using them yet does not make it totally wrong.

talk to the majority of diesel owners and they will tell you using WVO is totally wrong and will not work, but the reality is someone went ahead and poured WVO in their tank and saw how well it worked, and now Bobs your uncle.
Cheers,
Reza
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thedjjack
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Re: Injector Exchange

Post by thedjjack »

rezdiver wrote: This is what Steven is doing, give it time with the experiment and see what the outcome is. nobody said for everyone to use these, he is experimenting with them and if it works in the long run, then as delica owners there is a new part on the market to choose from. if it doesnt work then Steven can take care of his customers and warranty work.
As long as the experiment is up front and owners are aware that this is an experiment.

I am not sure if it is an experiment (unethical to have an experiment with out consent of the participants) or if these are perfectly good injectors for the 4M40 motor (this is all I am asking).

Does anyone have the published specs for the Hyundai injectors? and can these be compared to the specs for the stock 4M40 injectors?

Can someone show that they are equivalent? Personally another source for injectors would be great as long as they are the same or an improvement.
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