WARNING: Terra2Imports scam

[terra2imports]

Hello All,

Thanks for everyone's input on this subject. We'd like to take the opportunity to clarify our processes and why these situations arise.



We are a broker. We help people find ideal vehicles and assist them through the importation process. We've been doing it from the beginning.



Importing a vehicle is something anyone can do on their own, but not everyone wishes to learn the process, deal with the paperwork and take the risks on their own. We took the enthusiasts approach, because that's where we came from. Our prices seem high in comparison to others, we know that. This is due to the enormous amount of inquiries we generate that do not result in sales, and threads like this;) (We know, it comes with the territory, but still, from our perspective it takes up even more time)

We have over 13,000 listings on our site. There's no other site that even comes close to that. We receive postings from all types of sources: auctions, dealers, exporters, importers and private individuals. There's bound to be some overlap and inconsistencies and we apologize for that.

We also have "live pricing" on our site, which takes into account the current exchange rate and all costs that could be associated with the importation of your vehicle. Our estimates are based on the worst case scenarios, so much of the time the end cost is lower than expected. For example, if you're vehicle is container shipped, the costs will differ from RORO shipping. We go with the reliable options that we know are available.

We tried many different approaches, and we found "over-estimating" gave the best result, as clients prefer to receive a refund rather than a bill, and we want our clients to be sure they can cover all the expenses associated with their importation rather than getting stuck with costs they didn't know about. Our prices may seem high, but they do include everything. We're typically within 1-2% of our estimates.

Our clients are responsible for all costs involved with their importation and registration of their vehicles, plus our service fee. It's that simple.

Our clients can receive documentation of all costs involved with the importation of their vehicle upon request. Most dealers would never show the bill of sale for the vehicle as then you'd know their profit. We charge a set service fee for our services, because importation services don't change whether you're importing a 100K Bentley, or 6K Delica. You can see exactly where all your money is going rather than just a "total cost" for everything.

We've tried to set up an semi-automated system to show people all the information up front for all the listings we post to help with the huge volume if interest. Occasionally we have errors in the listings, which can affect the pricing structure. Some of the listings are repeated, as vehicles change hands from dealer to dealer, go through auctions on multiple occasions, etc.

We'd like to apologize for any inconsistencies and any confusion it may cause, and in the end it's the client's choice to deal with us or not.

We work with many sources, both Brave Auto and ZENN. You'll notice vehicles are posted among many importers as we all have access to the same vehicles sources, and we all have our own pricing structures.

We list vehicles that are available to import, and we import vehicles for clients who have found their own. We offer all levels of service to our clients, so it's unfair to compare full services to partial services.



akashik: Have you reviewed our website? Have been in touch with us at all to inquire about this, or did you jump straight to the forums to post your "warning"? I think everyone would agree it's bad practice to post up something as harsh as you did without knowing all the facts.

Now that you do, what is your opinion?

[terra2imports]

Forgot to address the inspection comment:

We only charge for inspections when there is a cost. $300 is about the most you can expect to pay if the inspector has to travel far to see the vehicle. If the cost is less, you pay less. If there is no cost, such as with the photos from Brave, then there's no cost.

BUT...

An inspection isn't just extra photos. It's verifying the condition of the vehicle by a independent source of information, one who doesn't care if you buy the vehicle or not. Taking your own photos, and most importantly test driving the vehicle are the benefits of an independent inspection. This is quite a different service.

[akashik]

Our clients can receive documentation of all costs involved with the importation of their vehicle upon request. Most dealers would never show the bill of sale for the vehicle as then you'd know their profit.

So Terra2 by your own admission you will not disclose the costs involved with the importation of a vehicle to a customer unless they specifically ask to see them, though this some how makes you more honest than other dealers who would also, like yourself, never disclose importation costs unless requested to?

[Delicafan]

I don't see an issue, businesses have to make money. Just don't clearly advertise that you charge a set fee of 1K when it's completely obvious that you do not. You get the right person who knows their rights and you will get charged with fraud and lose your ass......

my 2 cents anyhow... not worth a whole 2 pages of discussion.

[delicat]

I understand that brokers, dealers... got to make money. That's only fair and to be expected (to a degree anyway).

But to have a broker land a Delica for around $10 000 with no service done to the vehicle is quite high considering you could bring the same vehicle yourself for around $5 000. I know, I've brought 2 Delica on my own on top of the one I bought using Terra2.

Since Terra2 already have the base price for the vehicles probably means they are no longer auction vehicles as the price couldn't be known ahead of time. That might explain why their price increased drastically since last year but I don't work there so don't know all the details. So you can keep on trying to justify your costs it still doesn't add up...

If you look at sites like www.tradecarview.com you'll find Delica for sale (dealers) that are also found on jpn auctions and at the same time. But the auction sold price is almost half of the dealer's price for the exact same car... So it's up to you where you buy your Delica, buyer be aware that's all.

But if it gets you in the driving seat of a Delica, who really cares... (aside from your wallet).

[terra2imports]

terra2imports wrote:
Our clients can receive documentation of all costs involved with the importation of their vehicle upon request. Most dealers would never show the bill of sale for the vehicle as then you'd know their profit.


So Terra2 by your own admission you will not disclose the costs involved with the importation of a vehicle to a customer unless they specifically ask to see them, though this some how makes you more honest than other dealers who would also, like yourself, never disclose importation costs unless requested to?

^^That's worded...interestingly. After all this discussion, this is the tidbit you've chosen to focus on? Please allow us to clarify further then.

All our clients receive a full document package including all necessary documentation for the registration of the vehicle, including the original Bill Of Sale, the Canada Customs B3, Export Cert, Form 1, Bill of Lading, etc. They receive a document package to go with their vehicle including copies of all the documentation required for the reg. They receive an invoice showing all the costs associated with the importation. This is standard for all clients.

If they wish to receive more detailed documentation about all the costs listed on the invoice, it can be provided to those who request it.

But most clients using a broker are quite satisfied with not having to deal with any of it. The type of client who uses a broker like us typically doesn't want to deal with any of it, but it's there if you do.

We get into this discussion on many occasions, on many forums, and the bottom line is that it is the client's choice to use a broker or not. We are not required, we are providing a convenience based service for those who want/need it.

There is sufficient information on this Delica forum alone, as well as many others, for anyone to go through the process themselves, and we've seen some of the best results this way.

[akashik]

Well, the discrepancy between the price you list as the cost of the vehicle and the price zen lists as the cost of the vehicle still bothers me, however I'll take your word that this is not due to anything dishonest on your behalf.

[DelicaMark]

akashik - 6 posts in and I would have to say it should be your last. Please move on to other forum Homee!

-Mark

[Delicanadabc]

We need some of that troll spray!

[JMK]

I ended up buying my Delica at auction through Brave Auto. It was listed on Terra's site as coming up in that auction, but they omitted a couple of things, such that it would not be eligible for import into Canada for 6 months. It also had some incorrect information about the body type, but I can no longer remember what it was.

I went with Brave because they did not refuse to deal with me unless I made a $1,000.00 deposit and they were highly recommended.

Brave aquired the vehicle for me at auction and then stored it free for 6 months. The transaction went so well, I subsequently purchased about another 9 or so vehicles from Brave, 6 of which I brokered on behalf of others and charged $500.00. (I still have 2 vehicles from Brave, a Delica, and a VW Corrado. I also had a Toyota HDJ81 that was painful to part with.) However, you do not need to have a broker to deal with Brave Auto, you can buy directly from them, and then let Al Thompson at Courtenay Agencies handle everything for you. In the end you are responsible to show up at King's yard on Annacis Island and pick up the vehicle or have it transported if you cannot get it yourself. We dealt with a trucking company just down the road from King's who brought the vehicles to Alberta for about $500 - $600 with no problems, except for when we had to get them sent to Ontario or Quebec where they went via rail as arranged also by Al Thompson.

If Brave has a vehicle in stock then they have already aquired it and performed value added services on it. They supply almost 100 pictures of each vehicle as standard procedure at no cost. If it is at auction, they can aquire it on your behalf. That may account for discrepancies in pricing that you have noted.

The bottom line is while it may be more convenient for some to use the services of a broker like Zen (who in fact are very reputable), it is not mandatory. Brave will deal directly with the end user as well if you contact them, and they work in conjuction with Courtenay Agencies to get everything teed up on both sides of the pond so that it all goes smoothly for the overseas client.

Oh, and akashik, unless I was speed reading and missed something I can't see anything wrong with your posts, and I for one would fully support and appreciate your continued involvement and participation in this forum.

[glenn]

akashik, I agree with JMK. I'm not really sure why the guys turned on you. I thought your observations were justified, Terra 2 had a chance to clarify their business model to all of us, and I suspect many of us learned a little about how the various importers work and what services they provide. What's perplexing to me is that you were flamed after you backed down and accepted T2's explanation.

This is generally a supportive forum, and is the best place for delica drivers to turn for info. While your topic title is inflammatory, what followed was rational as I see it.

Glenn

[Modsqwad]

akashik - 6 posts in and I would have to say it should be your last. Please move on to other forum Homee!

-Mark

I think thats a little heavy myself. Akashik was addressing a confusing subject and it lead to a little more clarity for all of us including the dealers who need to know we can exert some control from the marketplace. Even if it was not clearly unethical practices as was first suspected we all need to have the facts before we can make good decisions on our own behalf. I learned a couple of things from this thread that will help me. Saludo's.
Andy Wilson

[Jonny5ive]

I have to say that I think posting on any forum without due connections or historical reference is very troll like.

I understand that people have a need to warn and/or vent when they feel victimized or 'scammed' but it is poor culture to do so without reference.

I was involved with a similar situation, through my business, where a rant post that was completely misleading and skewed wasted our time and money. The post in question was a customer service issue that was based on unreal expectations and serious lack of patience and an all too familiar misplaced sense of consumer ownership. When it was all laid out we were vindicated by way of tracing the posters rants and complaints he had made on other forums about anything and everything. Posters like these can really sting hurting honest businesses... affecting good people.

The trouble is people still believe in the old saying that the customer is always right. Which we all know is complete nonsense. With the idea that I am as much of a customer as a salesperson. And above all we are people. It's a shame that this gets forgotten by businesses and clients alike. There is nothing wrong with questioning value or looking into all your options before you buy. Forums like these offer us a talking resource in order to help us make the best decisions. But attacking businesses anonymously is not helpful, as it does nothing but create potentially unfounded, untrusted doubts.

As for Terra 2 and this thread: we have a post that in all seriousness does have a valid question... 2 different prices... and what is the deal? However, the post topic is titled "Warning: Terra2Imports Scam". That is pure judgement. How about posting the question, does anyone know why there are two prices on the same vehicle?

I read Terra2Imports response and I think they did a great job at addressing all the issues. They were clear and honest. In the end they're right in saying that you always have the right not shop with them. They made the distinction that it is better to under-promise and over-deliver then over-promise and under-deliver. Which in my experience is true and represents an honest approach to safe business.

To be clear, I have never shopped with Terra2 and I'm not responding in their defense (they did that well on their own). I'm just tired of this type of anonymous, gratuitous business slagging.

[flyfishn]

I sincerley agree with the Modsqwad and Glen.

[JMK]

Sean lists the japanese sellers price as 420,000 yen ($5,124 CAD),

The seller's price (Brave Auto), for Canada is currently listed as 595,000 yen for this vehicle:
http://www.braveautointernational.jp/ve ... shi/1.html

The original (lower) price by Zen may have been due to the fact that he mistakenly had quoted the Japan Price, not the FOB Canadian Price. (The 'FOB Canadian Price' includes the cost of shipping, shipping insurance, and all the other costs associated to get it to the shores of Canada such as Japanese de-registration fees).

The original (higher) price from Terra may reflect that Brave has lowered the price since they listed it? If this is the case, then Terra should edit their site and adjust the price accordingly to reflect the accurate price. What is really perplexing however, is that Terra adds $2,495 CAD to the cost as an 'Exportation estimate'. Problem is, the services covered by their 'exportation estimate' are already included in Brave's FOB Canada price, either Terra is not too familiar with Brave's procedures, or they are effectively 'double dippping', and that probably accounts for the higher price. On the importation costs, some of those items are not normally incurred, but might in Terra's case because of the way they do things.

It seems like the bottom line is if you want to cut to the chase, go right to the horse's mouth and check Brave's site.

Here is a rough breakdown of what it would cost for you to bring it into Vancouver yourself (if you were to use a custom's broker to do the clearance. As Noel points out, if you prefer, you could save another $250.00 by filling and presenting the B3 forms yourself):

Vancouver CAD GST
YEN Price 595,000
Yen=CAD Vancouver CIF Price $6,821.20
FOB Vancouver Vehicle Price (GST based on taxable part of itemized vehicle cost**) $6,821.20 $221.69
Broker Clearance Fees $250.00 $12.50
Duty 6.1% $416.09 $20.80
Excise Tax Weight $150.00 $7.50
Excise Tax for Air Con $100.00 $5.00
Drayage Costs $120.00 $6.00
CFIA clearance $0.00 $0.00
paying fee if required to protect and pay terminal fees $10.00 $0.50
terminal (warehousing) fee $170.00 $8.50

abstract fee per vehicle (manifest) $25.00
Storage @ $25.00 per day (may apply after 72hr grace period)


$0.00
Soil Inspection $0.00
$0.00
$0.00
Total before Tax $8,062.29 $282.49
GST $282.49
Total after Tax $8,344.79

Notes: This is a rough guide, the actual final cost may in fact be less, or maybe more. For example Canada Customs sometimes will skip a step and you will not be charged for a soil inspection or the CFIA clearance or something. But, let's say customs is busy and they do not clear your vehicle before 5 days lapse. On the 6th day, the COntainer Terminal starts to charge $200.00 per day for storage and then on the 8th day they can up it to $400.00 per day because they really want you to get the hell off their lot! Once the vehicle is cleared, if you do not pick it up within 2 days, storage charges of $25.00 per day commence.

**The CIF Price includes the price of Japan-side charges such as Insurance, freight to terminal, freight to Canada, vehicle prep, gov't deregistration fees, storage, agent's fees, etc. As these are not taxable, the actual GST and duty is levied on the vehicle purchase price FOB Japan which is less then the CIF price.