Replaced batteries, lost glow plug power, and starting

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JMK
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Replaced batteries, lost glow plug power, and starting

Postby JMK » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:13 pm

I just finished replacing two old and weak gel cells for new AGM batteries in my L300 in preparation for winter. When I turned on the ignition, I waited for the glow plug click, which never came. Turned the key the start position on the ignition switch anyway, and nothing.

Tested the glow plug bus bar by placing one lead from multimeter onto the bar, and the other to negative on battery terminal. No voltage. Checked battery voltages at terminals, no voltage drop when ignition turned, power stays at 12.8V.

Made sure shifter lever was in P position.

I'm wondering why the starter does not engage even if the glow plugs are not getting power, so I'm wondering if the problem is related. Best guess for cause of whatever it is - is related to disconnecting all the wiring and reconnecting it, although I did try reconnecting it again with no luck..

Any opinions or suggestions would be most welcome.

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Growlerbearnz
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Replaced batteries, lost glow plug power, and starting

Postby Growlerbearnz » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:13 am

You're looking for a fusible link in the battery bay, one of the ones with a spade terminal on each end, that goes to a large Black/Red stripe wire. That wire runs both the starter relay and the glow plugs. It's usually the fusible link spade terminals that go (they get dirty and overheat) but you might also have just not noticed it when plugging everything back in.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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JMK
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Replaced batteries, lost glow plug power, and starting

Postby JMK » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:08 am

Thanks for that, I was laying awake trying to picture what I may have missed when I reconnected everything (I went from 2 50A gel cells in the bay to one 70A AGM in the bay, and a 160lb 230A AGM auxillary cell outside the bay).

I'll head out shortly and see what I can find, thanks again.

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JMK
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Replaced batteries, lost glow plug power, and starting

Postby JMK » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:58 pm

Had no luck, so thought I'd attach a pic of what I see.:
- The top shows where there is a red/black wire on the negative side.
- As far as I can tell from probing with the multimeter, all the connections in the picture provide continuity.
- Not getting any power still to the glow plug bar when ignition turned on.
Delica.jpg
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Growlerbearnz
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Replaced batteries, lost glow plug power, and starting

Postby Growlerbearnz » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:14 pm

Ah. The big fat cable with the ribbed tube around it? That goes to positive, not negative. It's the power feed for your starter motor (and glow plugs via that fusible link).

L300Batt.JPG
L300Batt.JPG (120.79 KiB) Viewed 575 times


The only thing connected to negative should be the ground strap- on mine it's a fat black/yellow stripe cable that attaches to the body, and from there to the engine block. (It's a little misleading, because the power signal to the starter solenoid is also a black/yellow wire, albeit a thin one)
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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JMK
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Replaced batteries, lost glow plug power, and starting

Postby JMK » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:58 pm

Holy crap!!! Lucky I did not melt my whole system down with that sort of idiocy connecting cables to the wrong places, imagine if I had done the opposite! (The idea to place the red tape on the leads came after I made the mistake).

I'll go check that now before it starts to snow (we have a local snowfall warning for tonight), and then post back.

Thanks again!

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JMK
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Replaced batteries, lost glow plug power, and starting

Postby JMK » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:11 pm

I attached the third cable to Positive side and confirmed there is +12 at that point. However, I still get no voltage at the glow plug bar or the starter. So now I guess I have to go and investigate that red/black wire again and see if I can trace it:

Delica2.jpg
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JMK
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Replaced batteries, lost glow plug power, and starting

Postby JMK » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:50 pm

In the picture, it is the white/black connector that leads to the red/black wire. After I was manipulating it in order to probe through the sheath to check voltage, when I turned the ignition on, I heard the second 'click so indeed then it turned over and started. So just as you said, it would appear now to relate to an iffy spade connection. As I cannot seem to disconnect that plastic box, I suspect the problem is in that, which was activated when I was pulling hard on that cable in order to stretch it to fit the terminals.

Thanks again for all the help, without which I would not have been able to get this silly oversight corrected!

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Growlerbearnz
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Replaced batteries, lost glow plug power, and starting

Postby Growlerbearnz » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:54 pm

JMK wrote:it is the white/black connector that leads to the red/black wire.


Yup, the fat(ish) black wire just to the left of your new red tape, which goes to the white socket with the missing retaining tag. (And from there through the fusible link, to another white socket, to the black/red wire).

Not being able to disconnect the white sockets is usually a sign that the spades are corroded, and the heat from the poor contact has melted the plastic together. You want to clean up those spade terminals for optimum glow plug and starter operation, and for not setting your van on fire.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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JMK
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Replaced batteries, lost glow plug power, and starting

Postby JMK » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:16 pm

I take your point, and so I will not leave it and forget it. In fact the near one already had blue electricians tape on it so the previous owner had already visited that part. I'm anticipating that as those retainer tabs are already broken off both ends, it might be prudent to source a new fusible link or build a replacement before I pull the old ones apart. Building something is probably easiest if I can find it in the wiring diagram and get the spec's on the fuse.

Thanks again!

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Growlerbearnz
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Replaced batteries, lost glow plug power, and starting

Postby Growlerbearnz » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:07 am

Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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JMK
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Replaced batteries, lost glow plug power, and starting

Postby JMK » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:34 am

Thanks for that, I just read the first which was very interesting, have to get ready and go to work so will read the second at work.

Last night I did some poking around about fusible links. One useful site for information was here: https://www.whiteproducts.com/fusible-faqs.shtml

This link is probably a good resource to bookmark.

It made me think if I had to make up something if I can't clean the existing spades, I may be able to use Silicone wire, and cover the crimp with CPC300 adhesive heat shrink.

I've ordered some new fuse box/bus connectors and some 2 pin spade connectors from China, so I plan to wait for them so I can clean up the loom of wires with inline fuses that presently connect to the battery terminals before tackling the fusible link mitigation.

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JMK
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Replaced batteries, lost glow plug power, and starting

Postby JMK » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:45 am

Finally got a chance to read the other thread, very enlightening read.

Sounds like you recommended 20 gauge as a good size for a fusible link. It seems that the main problem with making your own fusible link is not finding a suitable gauge of wire, but containing it in a jacket that will not melt and burn. To that end I thought you could use silicone wire, and then wrap it in a jacket of carbon felt. The end result should be a link with the same performance dynamics as the original fusible link.

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Growlerbearnz
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Replaced batteries, lost glow plug power, and starting

Postby Growlerbearnz » Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:33 am

That would probably work- they're designed to melt and break apart, but not catch on fire. I don't know what carbon felt is (but carbon's sort of flammable, no?) but you can get fibreglass sleeving which would contain anything that makes it through the silicone.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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JMK
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Replaced batteries, lost glow plug power, and starting

Postby JMK » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:43 am

Carbon felt will contain any meltdown or fire (melting point is about 1200C). It handy stuff to have around, I recently found it very handy for my diesel heater install, used it on the exhaust to protect nearby lines, and to line the enclosure that contains the heater unit.


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