working out bugs on the road - Questions

Does your Mitsubishi L300 make a strange noise? Need wheel alignment specs?
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weelsey
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working out bugs on the road - Questions

Postby weelsey » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:51 pm

Good evening from Woodstock Ontario! I"m working on improving fuel economy issues while I travel across the country. I've logged a couple 1000 clicks on hardened seals and I'm doing around 12l/100 km in the St. Laurence river valley keeping it to three grand and drafting when possible. over 15 on a hilly stretch. I'm loaded down, partly with tools, too.

I brought a boost gauge (actually a boost/vacuum combined gauge). QUESTION: Can I get away with simply 'T-ing' into the pump compensator hose and running the gauge hose under the engine cover gasket? Or, what's the quick easy option? And can my mighty vac pressurize by changing hose locations?

I'm going to pull the pump soon now that I have a bosch 17mm driveshaft seal from a roadside pump shop. Or is it 22mm? The pump guy I spoke with was from the UK and said he had worked on the 2.8l mitsubishis before coming to Canada and his recollection was that they used the bigger shaft. So I bought both JIC. Wanting badly to be done with winter undercoating.

Also, the differential pinion seal is leaking and today I put some gear oil in for assurances. 75-140 Motomaster. Have I done a bad here with this oil choice?

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working out bugs on the road - Questions

Postby Growlerbearnz » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:06 pm

weelsey wrote:...keeping it to three grand...


This is a manual gearbox then? Because if it's an automatic and you're doing 3000rpm that's about 120kph, which explains your fuel economy.

weelsey wrote: Can I get away with simply 'T-ing' into the pump compensator hose and running the gauge hose under the engine cover gasket?

Totally. Though the hose might get squished, you'd be better to run it over the radiator, under the floor, and then through the large grommet the wiring goes through which is just to the left of your clutch pedal.

weelsey wrote:I have a bosch 17mm driveshaft seal from a roadside pump shop. Or is it 22mm? The pump guy I spoke with was from the UK and said he had worked on the 2.8l mitsubishis before coming to Canada and his recollection was that they used the bigger shaft.?

They're 17mm or 20mm. The later model 2.8 engines had a 20mm shaft, but your 2.5l engine should be 17mm. Good idea to get both though!

Having just spent way too much money on having a differential rebuilt, I personally wouldn't risk using the wrong oil, though as it's a temporary thing (you're going to replace the oil seal soon, right?) maybe just drain a bit of oil occasionally and check for sparkles.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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weelsey
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working out bugs on the road - Questions

Postby weelsey » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:00 pm

Oh man, I guess the manual trans got a lot shorter gearing. 3k revs is about 100 km/hr on the speedo or low 90's in reality on this gearbox with 235/75/15s. I don't want to go over 100. There are notes entered about fuel economy in my glovebox literature most recently of 10l/100km, which I have yet to achieve. 'WOnder with what kind of driving that was.

Boost on my wide range gauge I found in my mighty-vac bag (along with too short a length of hose) is reading 10 psi at max. So it's doing something rather normal, perhaps.

Growlerbearnz wrote:I personally wouldn't risk using the wrong oil

I'll find out what the proper stuff is. and have a look for metal as you suggest. What'd you get done and what'd it cost? Is there a better gearset?

Growlerbearnz wrote:2.5l engine should be 17mm
That's what I thought, but wasn't certain. Perhaps somebody needs a bigger bosch ve pump drive shaft seal still in the package? $20 in the mail CAD
I may pull the pump off tomorrow while in Chicago with family. Any advice on doing the pump removal and seal replacement? I've been looking around but have yet to find the experience documented. I don't believe I need to dissasemble the whole timing belt cover, just an upper part. Unbolt and pull the pulley. mark the position of the pump. remove.

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working out bugs on the road - Questions

Postby Growlerbearnz » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:32 pm

weelsey wrote:I'll find out what the proper stuff is. and have a look for metal as you suggest. What'd you get done and what'd it cost? Is there a better gearset?


Fluids: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=18434&p=136219 (TL;DR: 90W GL5 or 6)

I replaced all the bearings in my old differential, and re-set the backlash to be in spec (0.11-0.16mm, the old diff was at 0.45mm). Which turned into a learning experience: if an old gearset has been running just fine at a particular backlash, LEAVE IT ALONE. Changing the backlash means the old gearset has to break in all over again, and if it's *that* worn then there might not be much surface hardening left. My trusty old gearset turned itself into pretty sparkles over the course of 600km.

I had a brand new ring and pinion set installed to factory spec, with all new bearings. Cost me about $700 in labour alone- apparently my diff carrier did not co-operate.

The manual gearbox got the lowest gear ratios available- 4.625:1. Automatics had 4.875:1, but overdrive was much lower at 0.688 vs manual gearbox 5th of 0.856. Once you've got the fuel consumption under control, I'd recommend switching to 31" tyres.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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weelsey
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working out bugs on the road - Questions

Postby weelsey » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:33 pm

It turns out it was the larger of the two seals. (20mm outside diameter) so I'm rhankfull I had acquired the second on the advice of the pump guy in Bowmanville. Hoping to get it together in the morning.

Thanks for the info, Growlerbearnz.
Wow, thats a fair undertaking with the rear end. I've yet to do such a job. Hopefully i won't find silver metallic bits in the gear oil.

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working out bugs on the road - Questions

Postby Growlerbearnz » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:20 pm

weelsey wrote:It turns out it was the larger of the two seals. (20mm outside diameter)


That's unexpected. I wonder if your injection pump has been replaced with something from a later model?
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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weelsey
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working out bugs on the road - Questions

Postby weelsey » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:15 am

I was mistaken. Seems I screwed up hurrying to make it to thanksgiving supper on time :-( Bosch 2 460 283 001 is sitting nicely in the seal bore, but is for a bigger shaft according to http://www.hansautoparts.com/TDIFRontSeal.aspx
no surprise it leaks just as bad if not worse then before. So neither of the seals I acquired were correct; the 17mm did not fit the bore (and seemed to me rather tight on the shaft which is why the "better"' fitting 2 460 283 001 lead me to think I had the right thing. It's supposed to be really tight fitting over the shaft, I gather.

Anyway, drove the rest of the way accross the country. Man it is hard cold starting! Wonder if this is from timing or seal or both:
Looks like I missed the window on the warm weather for outside work. and the garage will not fit a high roof! But first to get the proper seal.

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weelsey
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working out bugs on the road - Questions

Postby weelsey » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:28 pm

That's unexpected. I wonder if your injection pump has been replaced with something from a later model?


I think more importantly what lead me to think I had the right seal was that the Bosch 20mm seal matched the old seal I'd pulled from the pump.
IMG_1286.JPG
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What I was told was a 17mm ve seal required a determined effort to fit over the shaft.
IMG_1287.JPG
IMG_1287.JPG (656.11 KiB) Viewed 661 times


Perhaps this was a correct shaft fit and what had been in the pump was in an incorrect seal, as it did not look particularly worn. or may be what I"m pretty sure is a drive shaft leak is due to wear in a bushing the seal cannot accommodate? Says MD171459 on pump which according to your contribution elsewhere, Growlerbearnz, this is a standard pump (if the number being off by one unit is o.k.).

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working out bugs on the road - Questions

Postby Growlerbearnz » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:10 pm

I replaced my front seal a long time ago as part of a seal kit, but I don't recall anything particularly difficult about the fit. From memory the trickiest part was finding a suitable piece of tube to press the seal in with. You're putting a smear of grease on the seal lips?
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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working out bugs on the road - Questions

Postby weelsey » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:16 pm

Growlerbearnz wrote:grease on the seal lips?
Yep. I used a socket. Pump guy in Edmonton I spoke with today asked if I put sealer on by which I assume he meant RTV.

I'll at some point remove the pump to a injection service and figure out the whole dealy-o. Wonder what's the difference in the MD171459 pump with the MD171460. None in the seal according to web page that you linked in the different injection pumps ac across years thread.

https://fuel-inject.com/zexel/1047408222/

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working out bugs on the road - Questions

Postby Growlerbearnz » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:17 pm

weelsey wrote:Wonder what's the difference in the MD171459 pump with the MD171460.


MD171459 is for a manual, MD171460 has the automatic kickdown cable linkage. Otherwise they're the same. And the linkages are easy to swap from one to the other anyway.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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Postby weelsey » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:58 pm

Ah, I see. My spare pump on the bench is for an auto I gather.

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working out bugs on the road - Questions

Postby weelsey » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:31 pm

Can see in the image the diesel drip path where wash lines are left even after my cleaning of the area. This is the bosch seal installed 1500k prior.
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IMG_1364.JPG (149.06 KiB) Viewed 524 times

The zexel seal does not have the rubber coating. See the old seal in the picture and my butcher job while removing. I may very well have done damage to the seal bore during its removal and I am interested to know what can be done to get the best seal at this point. A special sealant? Since I'm taking the pump off and attempting the re-seal myself, I'd like to know what is an allowable movement in the driveshaft. I see on web some VW discussion about .2mm
IMG_1298.JPG
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Postby weelsey » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:14 am

If the bottom o-ring on the pump's regulator valve were hardened to the point of failing to seal pump body fuel pressures (up to 100psi?), or if the regulator were stuck in an open position, would you see pressure build up on the low pressures side, which might perhaps contribute to leakage at a front seal?

I took out the valve and had the 0-ring split in two. Hardened seals a plenty around the pump. First time going deep in the IP. Wish me luck!
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Postby Growlerbearnz » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:29 pm

That's an interesting idea, and you might be on to something there. The shaft seal's just a regular rotary seal, it can't cope with too much pressure. If for some reason pump body pressure could make its way to the inlet side of the pump I would expect it to leak.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.


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