Is this the Accepted Amount of Smoke when Starting? (video)

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javabob
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Is this the Accepted Amount of Smoke when Starting? (video)

Postby javabob » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:51 pm

Hey guys,

Starting the Deli up seems a little too smokey to me. There is heavy smoke at the start and then intermittent puffs until the engine is warm.

As mine is the only one I've ever seen start up, or even running for that matter, I was wondering if this is normal?

She runs runs great once warm and has never given me cause for concern.

So, what do you guys think?

https://youtu.be/34-Lf0zGb6c
Last edited by javabob on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Is this the Accepted Amount of Smoke when Starting? (video)

Postby Growlerbearnz » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:01 pm

Um. No. Maybe if it's below freezing outside, but not in summer. Since it starts right up*, I believe you may have a failed glowplug or two.

Pull them out, and if none are obviously damaged, briefly (5 seconds) apply 12V to each one and see if it glows. There's a video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXqz9XDDPiU of the test, though he has slow glowplugs where our engines have super-quick ones.

If your glow controller was malfunctioning, I would expect it to crank for longer before starting. But just to check, you have the usual two clicks, about 5 seconds apart, and you're starting after the second click, with your foot on the gas a bit? That's what it looks and sounds like.


(For some reason your embedded video wouldn't play for me, I had to watch it on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/embed/34-Lf0zGb6c)
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javabob
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Is this the Accepted Amount of Smoke when Starting? (video)

Postby javabob » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:10 pm

I was thinking that was too much smoke. Also, you are right, it would smoke like that when it was -23c. Yesterday was about 23c.

I actually have a bypass button that I push to warm the glow plugs. I push the button, it clicks, and I hold it in for 5 seconds. When I release the button I get the second click. I don't touch the gas until I let off the starter, it would stall otherwise.

I'll pull the plugs tomorrow and have a look.

Thank you for posting the link to the test and also to my failed attempt at embedding!
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

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Is this the Accepted Amount of Smoke when Starting? (video)

Postby Growlerbearnz » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:42 pm

Hmm. Is the bypass activating the super-quick relay (the rightmost of the two round relays, thin wire connected by a spade terminal, labelled "2" in the picture), or the slow relay (the leftmost one, thin wire connected to a small screw eye, "1" in picture)?

CRW_1754.jpg
CRW_1754.jpg (45.45 KiB) Viewed 746 times


If you hold on the quick one for too long, you'll burn out the glow plugs. They're 6V plugs, and the right relay feeds them 12V to heat them up quickly, but only for a short while. The left relay feeds them 6V (through the resistor pack labelled "?") to help the engine run smoothly while it warms up. If your bypass switch activates the slow relay, it'll take quite a while to heat up the glowplugs.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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javabob
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Is this the Accepted Amount of Smoke when Starting? (video)

Postby javabob » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:21 pm

I checked the glow plugs and they looked fine and tested good as well. Just for the hell of it I stuffed some new ones in and it may have improved the smoking a tiny bit. Here is a picture of the glow plugs I took out.
1.jpg
1.jpg (236.94 KiB) Viewed 664 times
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

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Growlerbearnz
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Is this the Accepted Amount of Smoke when Starting? (video)

Postby Growlerbearnz » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:27 pm

Those look like the factory ceramic plugs, possibly the 25 year old original ones. As long as they all glowed about the same then they're probably good, but if one was getting tired it would explain some of the smoke.

So it's still a bit rough on starting. Possibly a clogged injector, possibly low compression on one cylinder.

The clogged injectors are cheap to fix. Try some injector cleaner through the fuel system. It's unlikely to cure it entirely, but if there's improvement then you're on the right track, and fitting rebuilt injectors will probably do the trick.

Low compression is more expensive to fix, requiring an engine rebuild. If it is low compression, the best workaround would be to fit new injectors and glow plugs, and advance your injection timing a bit.
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javabob
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Is this the Accepted Amount of Smoke when Starting? (video)

Postby javabob » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:56 pm

Thank you so much Growler for giving me a path to pursue!

I'll throw some injector cleaner down it's gullet and see what happens.

Now, if it were low compression, would there be any other symptoms?
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

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Is this the Accepted Amount of Smoke when Starting? (video)

Postby Growlerbearnz » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:24 pm

javabob wrote:Now, if it were low compression, would there be any other symptoms?


The engine would probably leak more oil than usual (more gas making it past the rings, pressurising the crank case, forcing oil out of everywhere), but the problem there is the "...than usual" bit.

Difficulty starting in cold weather (again, though, how difficult should it be, and how much is due to other factors?)

The real way to know is a compression test, but for that you need a diesel compression tester.

Maybe check your valve clearances next time you're in the engine bay, that would be a nice cheap fix.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.


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