To Sleeve or Not to Sleeve? Replacing Cylinder Liners on a 4d56td Rebuild

murdermitten · Post by **murdermitten** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:32 pm

Growlerbeanz-

Once again thank you for the invaluable information! So in essence I'm trying to put pre 1993 parts on a 1993 engine. Great, but it sounds like not all is lost...

The questions now are:

1. Is it even worth it? Will it be a direct swap, or do I need other 1993 bits like the ECU mentioned int the linked post?
For example, I chose to buy just the head, and I know now I'll need valves from an earlier than '93 engine. Is there anything else (springs?) that you can think of that I'll need to support this swap?

2. My new head is missing this piece (just a plug), which the mechanic broke, but I have an additional one on the engine in the van waiting to come out, I cannot order it, any tips on how to remove the old one, or what it might even be called?

Thanks again, lemme know what American delicacies you're missing out on over in NZ and I'll send em your way as a thank you!!!

Post by **Growlerbearnz** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:01 pm

murdermitten wrote:Growlerbeanz-
1. Is it even worth it? Will it be a direct swap, or do I need other 1993 bits like the ECU mentioned int the linked post?
For example, I chose to buy just the head, and I know now I'll need valves from an earlier than '93 engine. Is there anything else (springs?) that you can think of that I'll need to support this swap?

Ah, I see. You've bought a new engine and are rebuilding that, while your old one is still in the van. Many opportunities for complication.

2 different head/piston styles: the engine block was unchanged, so as long as your new head matches your new pistons (protruding valve head, valves, and pistons) in theory it should all go together. I've not actually done the swap though. I don't know if the valve springs changed. I suspect not, but the best way to check would be to assemble your new head with matching valves and your old springs, and make sure they don't coil bind when the cam's at full lift.

Could you pull your old head and see what style pistons you have? If you have protruding valve pistons (and you should), you might be able to use your old valves and springs on the new head.

You'll only need the ECU if it has an ECU-style injection pump- if your pump has a place to attach an accelerator cable, you're fine. (ECU pumps are drive-by-wire.)

murdermitten wrote: 2. My new head is missing this piece (just a plug), which the mechanic broke, but I have an additional one on the engine in the van waiting to come out, I cannot order it, any tips on how to remove the old one, or what it might even be called?

In '93 they also added a water-cooled turbo. That's the water-cooled turbo cooling port. MD199222 (Amayama claim to have it, but they might be lying). Pre-'93 engines just had a freeze plug in place of this port (01296 in your diagram). Whether you replace it with a new inlet or a freeze plug depends on if you're using the new engine's turbo, or your old one.

No idea how to remove it without damage, I suspect it might be pressed or heat shrunk in. As a last resort you could fit a freeze plug in its place, and plumb the turbo into the heater outlet instead. it's just around the corner on the side of the head. (which would require brazing an extra stub onto the heater outlet).

murdermitten · Post by **murdermitten** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:58 pm

Once again you're saving the day Growlerbeanz.

So here is the latest. I'm going to combine the following to make a complete engine:

New head (1991 design)
Used valves, springs, and cam (from 1991 engine in the van at the moment)
Entire bottom end (from 1993+ engine I have in the machine shop.)
Bolt-ons from 1991 engine (the one in the van, but maybe a combination of parts depending on what bolt ons look to be in the best shape).

Only thing I am concerned with now are the accessory parts, most notably the turbo, since it sounds like the 1993 motor has a water cooled turbo, and my rebuilt engine will not be set up for that. Also the turbo on the motor in the car at the moment is suspect since the crank bearing(s) let loose and probably sent metal everywhere throughout the engine.

That said, the genuine Mitsu replacement is not available for a reasonable price (MD106720). Any recommendations (I've seen you dabble with turbos in other posts on the forum)? Do I need to pick up a gasket kit or any other accessories? I don't want to delay the rebuild any further!

Thanks again,

Eric

Post by **Growlerbearnz** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:59 pm

I no longer recommend upgrading the turbo to a larger one: a standard turbo is fine up to 14psi constantly or 17psi occasionally, and our engines don't have the controls needed to use any higher boost without risk of damage. I don't trust non-genuine turbos, but I guess they're cheap and easy to replace so... maybe?

You might be able to get a new centre hub rotating assembly (CHRA) for your old turbo rather than the whole turbo- just watch out you don't get a water-cooled one. Have a look at TD04 09B CHRAs online. Searching by your turbo's part number and "CHRA" should bring up a number of results- my current turbo is a 49177-01500, but check yours for the actual part number. It's stamped on the compressor housing.

Apart from that busted outlet, fitting the water-cooled turbo shouldn't give you any trouble- just use the water pipes from the newer engine. But that outlet is a bit of a pain. Maybe an engineering shop would have a better idea how to fix the housing? Fitting a new hose stub to the heater outlet wouldn't be difficult: drill new hole, braze in new water pipe stub.

murdermitten · Post by **murdermitten** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:35 am

Cool, I'll check out the turbo in my current vehicle as well as the water-cooled one off of the 1993 engine.

Apparently I can get that head gasket water outlet piece, and installing one into the new head is simple, but to be honest I'd rather just go with the non water-cooled one just for simplicity...I've already given myself and my engine rebuilder enough challenges on this one!

Thanks,

Eric

murdermitten · Post by **murdermitten** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:19 pm

So, I found my turbo, very similar to your number, but ending in "05" rather than "00."

I can find the compressor wheel alone, or a full turbo + gaskets online. Wondering what you think the pros and cons would be between the two?

I'm inclined to just get the full turbo + gaskets, seems more foolproof rather than taking it for a rebuild, but if quality is the key issue I'd be willing to get it rebuilt over just slapping an inferior aftermarket part on there.

Post by **Growlerbearnz** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:59 pm

I don't really have much experience with non-genuine turbos. If it were me, I'd buy the complete unit because it's only slightly more expensive than the CHRA alone, and the quality's unlikely to be any different. And if it blows up, you still have your complete old turbo(s) to rebuild.

murdermitten · Post by **murdermitten** » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:37 pm

Hey-

Hopefully this is one of the last questions related to the rebuild, the block was milled slightly to get a perfectly flat surface and the rebuilder and I noticed that there are different engine gaskets listed in the shop manual.

Thinking that this is related to piston protrusion, is there a specific measurement listed for this? If so would there be a gasket height that I could order to make this height the ideal measurement?

Thanks,

Eric

Post by **Growlerbearnz** » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:39 pm

You're right, the gaskets were matched to each engine in the factory to keep the compression ratio within spec. Since your engine's block is now shorter, ideally you need a thicker gasket to compensate.

Look at what gasket the engine had originally (a row of marks on the back of the block, or on holes the front of the old gasket), figure out how much you've skimmed off the block, and then choose a thicker gasket to make up the difference. Gaskets come in 1.45, 1.50, and 1.55 mm thick. Don't panic if the original gasket was the thickest one already, a bit more compression won't hurt, it will just limit how much you can advance your injection timing.

Excuse the dodgy translation.

: 4D56 Gasket.PNG (184 KiB) Viewed 4994 times

murdermitten · Post by **murdermitten** » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:50 pm

Amazing! Saved the day again...now to figure out what was on there and order the new one.

Hopefully we're all set after this, but I'm sure there will be additional issues as it all comes together! Turbo should have been delivered today as well.

Thanks again.

murdermitten · Post by **murdermitten** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:23 am

Well, of course there was one (hopefully small) last snag:

Despite the turbo being described as appropriate for the '91 motor, it has a water jacket with ports on both sides for the '93 water cooled engine.

That said, is there any reason to not install it and just cover the openings with a block off plate or some bolts?

The alternative is to knock out the plug on the side of the block and install the plumbing for the water cooled turbo, considerably more work, but is it worth it?

Thanks again!

Post by **Growlerbearnz** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:17 pm

Lots of people on teh internets say it's not necessary, as long as you let your turbo cool down before turning off the engine (with a turbo timer or just by waiting for a few minutes). Google "water cooled turbo without coolant" for a lot of well-intentioned discussion.

However Garrett specifically warn against running a water cooled turbo without the coolant: https://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobyg ... ooling.pdf

Other factors to consider: the engine bay on an L300 is cramped and hot, the turbo is small and works hard, and the oil in a diesel engine is far dirtier than that in a gas engine. An uncooled water-cooled turbo is going to fail sooner than it should, but the gamble is how soon is that? A year? 10 years?

Looks like you have three options:
-Run it un-cooled and accept that you'll always be a bit paranoid about its reliability (and replace it with an oil-cooled one if it fails)
-Fit the cooling lines at extra expense and hassle, but with more assured reliability (except for the increased complexity of the cooling system)
-Sell your water-cooled turbo and buy an oil-cooled one for a stock setup

I would fit the cooling lines, but I'm not paying someone to do it. YMMV.