Turns in 4wd make strange noise

Does your Mitsubishi L300 make a strange noise? Need wheel alignment specs?
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sealica
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Turns in 4wd make strange noise

Post by sealica »

When I engage 4x4/4wd to 4-Hi and make slightly-sharpish/sharp turns the van makes a click/pop/groan/grind hard-to-describe kind of sound which never happens with 4wd turned off ... I'm able to reproduce the issue perfectly in 4wd by making a sharp enough turn and then deactive 4wd and make the same turn with no sound ...

Always on logging roads .. gravel as found around British Columbia.

Timeline for noticing problem

2 months ago - 4wd engaged (while stopped) while going up a steep gravel hill ... that was irregardless of steering wheel.

1.5 months ago - if memory serves correct it made a similar sound while driving down a hill after accidentally moving the 4wd shifter while parked ... I can't remember if the sound was before or after disabling 4wd by reversing ... Edit: this was on pavement in the city

1 month ago - next opportunity for 4wd was on an ice patch of rippled gravel parking lot ... the 4wd seemed fine although the short figure eights bumpy ... it was level ground ..

1 week ago - next gravel road test was the turning sharp which seemed to reproduce the sound. It reoccurred and we further tested it while going faster (~40km/h) up and down a frozen, icy, gravel road up a mountain.

Wondering about any possible leads/tests?

misc info about the van:
-auto hubs
-top and bottom ball joints both sides recently replaced with new ball joints (4).
-doesn't look like any boots are torn, but I only briefly inspected as it's pretty tight without jack stands and my parking space is a hill right now ...
-July 18 2016; CVI invoice from previous owner says, "SHOCK BUSHINGS ON FRONT."
-Power steering fluid looked good? There was a dipstick on the lid which looked like: MIN | MAX . . . the fluid was very near the top of the line in the middle
Last edited by sealica on Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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north54
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Turns in 4wd make strange noise

Post by north54 »

Could be a bad bearing in your BJ assembly. My 4wd feels a little rough and I'll be checking these bearings.

They are 7,9,6 in the pic. One big holder and several loose balls.
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tomaboyd
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Turns in 4wd make strange noise

Post by tomaboyd »

4wd systems are not, in general, designed to handle "sharp turns". The surface usually dictates how "sharp" a turn you can make before you get some sort of noise or binding.

I have a Unimog, a Delica, a new Jeep and a VW Syncro. It is not hard in any of them to recreate the noises you are describing.
sealica
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Turns in 4wd make strange noise

Post by sealica »

I was kind of thinking that at first .. it does seem to occur (although less noisy) even doing a kind of normal corner. The first time I got the noise I was purposley pushing the limit to see if the turns caused the issue and sure enough pretty noisy. But then two days later it was happening on the mountain with less aggressive turns. It just kind of seems normal 4wd driving ... going up an icy hill ... engage 4wd ... hill has corners ...

or say the classic turning around on a deactivated logging road which gets too dicy ... also a sharp turn ...

I guess to try and establish how sharp exactly: the first turns I was making were basically all the way to the limit of the steering wheel, the second day were more like 2/3 and it was definitely a quieter sound - seemed to be happening around 50% of corners on our drive though ...

I guess my biggest concern is when this sound occurs is it a signal of stress/damage ... or just kind of regular wear/tear? I'd like to track the source and/or pursue some preventative maitenance on the 4wd system so it doesn't fail in the middle of a mud puddle or something :p front axle definitely looks like a good place to look - is the front axle the same as the CV shaft? it looks very similar - might be wrong, but trying to recognise the parts

My last vehicle was just a simpler Chevy blazer 4x4 and it made lots of squeaks and rattles, but almost never in 4wd although it had less capability to make tight turns than the delica - and certainly less torque on slippery gravel as I've noticed!
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tomaboyd
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Turns in 4wd make strange noise

Post by tomaboyd »

It good to go through the system at any rate. If nothing else you will become familiar with it so that when you do have a problem you know what is going on.

As far as my experience with binding (noise). It is extremely surface dependant. Dry pavement will bind the soonest and probably something like sheet ice the latest. I am not sure exactly how speed works into the equation, but I would suspect that the faster you are going the more "load" you are putting on the system during turns and the sooner it will start making noise.

If you do not actually need to be in 4wd, then you are probably going to experience it sooner rather than later. My basic theory is that if I am not slipping in 2wd, or just a little, then I have no business being in 4wd.
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Growlerbearnz
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Turns in 4wd make strange noise

Post by Growlerbearnz »

As others have suggested it's probably normal. Just as a precaution though, it's a good idea to unscrew the Auto Hub chrome cap (it can be a pig to get off the first time) and check that the driveshaft end still has its circlip in place (it'll be greasy and gross). If the circlip comes loose the driveshafts will move too far and will make alarming noises.

I have used an oil filter strap wrench to remove the Auto Hub cover, though mine have marks on them that suggest someone has used a hammer and chisel on them in the past. Ugh.
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sealica
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Turns in 4wd make strange noise

Post by sealica »

OK regarding the circlip. I haven't yet disassembled my hub because I don't want to fiddle too much because I have a trip coming up and I didn't have time earlier.

I'm kind of orienting myself and looking for obvious issues before disassembling anything. but I'm trying to understand the reason for looking here and it appears that the driveshaft leads from the differential into the hubs; whereas the steering system is separate.

I jacked the van's front end up and turned the key to accessory to allow me to turn the wheels around looking for problems. The boots on the driveshaft and steering looks fine, although some hairline cracks. No noises occur when the wheels are turned - so the problem must be in the driveshaft / differential? This leads me to believe that the problem lies either in the hub (which is only engaged during 4wd?), the bearings described in the diagrams posted by north54, or last and (worst case) the differential itself. Is that a fair plan-of-attack?

Summary: check the hubs (should I just replace wheel bearings while at it?) then disassemble driveshafts if that doesn't resolve.

~ ~ ~

I now have more experience with the noise happening.

The noise happens in 4H and appears to occur at a higher frequency as the steering wheel moves closer to maximum either left or right. It's a metallic *TICK* *TICK* *TICK* there's a bit of a rumble at regular speed, especially on hills but probably on account of the engine being less noisy downhill ;) The noise is more ovbious on "sharp" turns, but usually when using 4H there are some turns involved . . . do others disengage 4-Hi before doing a three point turn?

I'm always talking about bumpy gravel logging roads, never use the 4wd system on pavement - but I know not what life the van has lived. I did accidentally engage it on pavement once and the sound was a cacaphony of clicks and grinds until I was able to disengage the auto hubs by doing the usual reverse/forward until the light goes off. I don't always engage 4wd when on gravel logging roads, but when the terrain is either hilly or the rocks are loose and slip around I do find 4wd helps avoid loosing momentum at the slower speeds I like to drive
sealica
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Turns in 4wd make strange noise

Post by sealica »

Growlerbearnz wrote:. . .it's a good idea to unscrew the Auto Hub chrome cap (it can be a pig to get off the first time) and check that the driveshaft end still has its circlip in place (it'll be greasy and gross). If the circlip comes loose the driveshafts will move too far and will make alarming noises. . .
OK. Part of my hesitation is also that I'm not 100% on what we're talking about, and also the whole do not mix grease thing. I would like to have grease on hand, but not quite sure about the preexisting grease -- or perhaps I'm overthinking this.

If I understand correctly (from witnessing mechanic disassemble my wheel bearing to repack) the wheel bearing is the same area as "the Hub." So I take off the hub cap inbetween the wheel studs and this is where i should be looking, says "AUTO" on mine, but perhaps I should be looking @ manual if I need to replace :p
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Turns in 4wd make strange noise

Post by Growlerbearnz »

Download the full workshop manual from here: http://www.delica.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=17809

Chapter 26 (front axle) page 27 shows the bit you need to unscrew (the illustration hilariously implies you can unscrew the chromed cap with your fingers) and the next picture shows removal of the snap ring, which will let you know what you're looking for.

I wouldn't worry about renewing the grease. You'll need to remove/move some temporarily to be able to see the snap ring, but if you use a bit of clingfilm it should stay clean enough that you can put it back when you're done.

Here's what it looks like behind that cover after you've scooped the grease out- in this picture the circlip is removed (duh) but it should be attached to the axle- the innnermost splined part. If it's floating free (though covered with grease) then you've found your problem.
RemoveCirclip.jpg
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Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.
sealica
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Turns in 4wd make strange noise

Post by sealica »

Yeah quite hilarious. Finger tight hub cap? what were they thinking!!

Don't have a strap wrench and didn't have much success with my usual too tight oil filter removal methods. I think some slip-joint pliers with 3" jaw and some rubber inner tube to protect the cap would be ideal.

It's possible to do the check without removing wheels right? Only need to take the wheels off to go further into the hub/bearing . . .

?
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Growlerbearnz
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Turns in 4wd make strange noise

Post by Growlerbearnz »

That's correct, you can do everything without removing the wheels.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.
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