Suddenly won't start

Does your Mitsubishi L300 make a strange noise? Need wheel alignment specs?
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ynwa
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Suddenly won't start

Postby ynwa » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:02 pm

Hey, just a "Bloody great thread" comment here. I was having some really terrible morning start issues. But a new TempSensor followed by a GP cleaning (caked, black carbon) helped things out. I do suffer from the 'curse of the Alternator Pulley shake rattle and roll'.

Nice work you guys.
1991 L300 TD Low Roof

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pluckmyeyeout
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Suddenly won't start

Postby pluckmyeyeout » Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:24 pm

Thanks for the voices of support from the lurkers!

I'm having fun and learning a lot, so it's all good...

So my wife picked up the new plugs today on her way to work and didn't get back until late, so I'll try to swap them out tomorrow.

In the meantime, I decided to try to get the ECU and relays back in place and start to trace voltage with a multimeter, just to see if there was any obvious dead zone. One thing to note: One end of the little black spaded bit of insulated wire (the piece I took a picture of at the beginning of the thread) was loose when I went through the battery compartment, so I tightened it up. I cranked it over and started for a quick second - like before, then died.

Couldn't get it to fire up again.

Tested voltage at the bus bar: 9V when charged (in between relay clicks). That's correct, right?

Toward the end of trying to start it got sluggish so I pulled the batteries and put them on the trickle charger overnight. I also tested the old glow plugs again by hitting them with 12V (I just did the ohms test before). All of them glowed red-hot within seconds.

Like I said, I'll try the other plugs tomorrow. I'll also try jumping it again to see if I can get it started for longer than a few seconds.

At this point, I wonder if there's a different fuel issue, but I checked at the injectors again and they're still spitting the same amount they were before.

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Suddenly won't start

Postby Growlerbearnz » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:25 pm

9V at the bus bar when the glow plugs are on is about right. The glow plugs draw an insane amount of power, so your usual 12V from teh battery gets dragged down to 9v at the plugs.

I'm not surprised your batteries were getting low- cranking and glow-plugging are hard work!

It's kind of odd that it starts for a bit and then stops. If it keeps doing it with the new glow plugs my next guess would be that it might be a small air leak somewhere. Diagnosing that involves temporarily swapping the rubber fuel lines that go from the filter to the pump, and the small line that goes from the return rail to the pump, with transparent hose. Crank engine, watch for bubbles.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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Suddenly won't start

Postby pluckmyeyeout » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:59 pm

OK: Tried jumping the old plugs to see if I could replicate the 10-sec start I got directly after swapping out the fuel stop solenoid. Couldn't do it. Swapped in new plugs, again, no luck. See video:

https://youtu.be/1f1-aLq_KgU

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Lapprentis
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Suddenly won't start

Postby Lapprentis » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:28 pm

I am NO mechanical expert but after following your saga here (like MANY of us), I would consider emptying ALL your fuel from both tanks and fill it up again with "Fresh+Clean" diesel of a reliable source: I remember having read on this forum an horor (?) story about a guy that ended filling up its Delica with "Spoiled"-"Bottom of the reservoir" ??? dirty diesel in a remote area..... :? Also, you may add some "Gas-Line" (Methanol)-and/or other fuel additives....It may help :-)

Lapprentis :M

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Suddenly won't start

Postby pluckmyeyeout » Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:57 pm

I've actually heard about bad gas happening before - more than once - so it's not out of the question, though in this case, I filled up at a pretty busy station in a semi-urban area. I actually started keeping my receipts after reading this article:

http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/why-you-s ... 1648937540

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Suddenly won't start

Postby Growlerbearnz » Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:24 pm

Dammit! That's really frustrating. Your glow plug relay clicks sound about right, and the voltage is doing what it should as the plugs heat up. It's cranking nice and fast, and there's a bit of a starting cough there- but not much. It sounds like it's trying to start on only one cylinder.

What are we missing?

Lapprentis wrote:\I would consider emptying ALL your fuel from both tanks and fill it up again with "Fresh+Clean" diesel of a reliable source.


Good thought- contaminated fuel could account for this. Though, before draining the entire tank I'd drain your fuel filter into a jar and look for water contamination first.

Fuel filter water.PNG
Fuel filter water.PNG (78.63 KiB) Viewed 1138 times


To eliminate the fuel supply as a source of failure you could remove the fuel hoses from the filter and put them into a container of fresh, clean diesel (though you might need to fit longer hoses and re-bleed the injectors).
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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Suddenly won't start

Postby Morgonzo » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:06 pm

I've been thinking about your problem all day. Is your Deli an Auto trans? You know how you can't start an auto unless your foots on the brake and it''s in Park, It almost seem like a sensor got broke or a wire came off when you stopped at the Metal Fab place when it originally broke down. I watched your vid's, and for it to crank like that with no turn over...either makes me think of a major air intrusion or an electrical fault like you originally alluded to "like someone turned off a kill switch". Maybe a Compression test is in order to see if your making the proper compression to fire the engine?

I had a bunch of air leaks in my 7.3 idi, and when I started to hunt them down I was told that air can get in even when diesel cannot get out. so even if your not leaking fuel from a hose, it doesn't mean it can't be sucking air in. I don't think that would cause you to go from running happily to dead in the water...but if you removed any of the original fuel lines as you've done this work you could've created air leaks along the way.
I hope that thought does not stress you further, just go over your fuel line clamps again (if you haven't yet) and double check that everything is tight and there's no badly cracked hose ends. The other thought would be air intrusion from the tank side. If you can double check the fuel tank where the sender and float attach.
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Suddenly won't start

Postby Morgonzo » Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:35 pm

Just an add on; in the service manual for the Auto Trans (section 23-8) there is an "Inhibiter Switch" inspection and adjustment chapter. This seems to be the electrical device that senses if you're in drive or park. It looks like it's an easy enough thing to get to in order to check it. It's on the Pass side of the trans housing with a cable running out of it.
also in the shifter housing inside the delica (the actual gear shift lever) is a small electric relay simply labeled "starter relay" pg 23-19. The manual has a troubleshooting procedure to test for continuity.
I'm just trying to think outside the box a bit, the only other thing that came to mind was bad conductivity in the GP rail. I had pretty rough cold starts with stalling and lots of white smoke when we first got our Deli, but now I replaced all 4 GP's and changed my GP rail for an all copper one and after sitting for two weeks cold, she started on the first key over. No white smoke either.
Maybe it's just not getting hot enough...even with the jumper cable on the rail. :?

Hope this helps.... :-)
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"Zowie Zow!" :-D

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Suddenly won't start

Postby north54 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:05 pm

+1 on air leak. Perhaps your fuel injector pump seals need a replacement. Once the seals have had it they let air in. If the diesel in the fuel filter looks contaminated then its another clue that the seals may need attention.

Good luck
TRUSTY RUSTY

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Suddenly won't start

Postby Growlerbearnz » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:19 pm

Morgonzo wrote: You know how you can't start an auto unless your foots on the brake and it''s in Park,


L300's are a bit primitive for that level of fanciness ;-). The inhibitor switch only lets the starter operate if the gearbox is in Park or Neutral, but it doesn't care about the brake pedal. The starter relay also gets power from the fuel cut solenoid supply, so if the starter's cranking, the engine should start.

Thinking aloud here: It's just so weird that the failure to start only happened after failure of the fuel cut solenoid. Glow plugs and air leaks are good avenues of investigation, but they're normally gradual failures that cause hard starting and get worse- but it was running just fine before the solenoid jammed. Most frustrating.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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Suddenly won't start

Postby pluckmyeyeout » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:05 am

Thinking aloud here: It's just so weird that the failure to start only happened after failure of the fuel cut solenoid. Glow plugs and air leaks are good avenues of investigation, but they're normally gradual failures that cause hard starting and get worse- but it was running just fine before the solenoid jammed. Most frustrating.


THIS. There most definitely WAS an issue with the Solenoid. It's definitely fixed. So now I have another (several?) problem(s).

I haven't had a chance to look at the fuel yet. Work work work keeping me busy. I did turn it over once for a friend yesterday after sitting for a few days. It started and (very) rough idled for about 10 sec before dying. I wonder, does this lend any credence to the "bad fuel" theory? Or maybe the "air-in-the-lines" theory? Either way, somehow, sitting for a while helps it start.

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Suddenly won't start

Postby Growlerbearnz » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:09 am

Starting after sitting a while or after pumping the fuel filter primer pump, but dying soon after, sounds like an air leak. The usual place they fail is at the injector pump seals, with the front seal around the shaft being the most irritating to change (and therefore the first one to fail), but I can't imagine why yours would have suddenly failed.

When you managed the 10 seconds of running, did you try to keep the revs up? Sometimes a first start after fuel work needs 30 seconds or so running at 1500rpm to clear the last of the air out. But I don't think that's the issue, as it would start easier the next time.

I wonder if your new solenoid has some kind of weird air leak, or if the failure of the old one somehow blew a seal? Or maybe a rubber fuel line has been disturbed and started to let air in after all the work in that area. Check the ends of the rubber hoses, look for any cracks at the end.

03-ClothHose1.JPG
03-ClothHose1.JPG (36 KiB) Viewed 1082 times


It might be time to swap out your rubber fuel lines for transparent ones and see if there are any air bubbles. (Just the two rubber hoses that go from the filter to the injection pump, plus the small one that goes from the injector return line to the pump).
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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Suddenly won't start

Postby pluckmyeyeout » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:20 am

When you managed the 10 seconds of running, did you try to keep the revs up?


Tried - not able to get the revs up. Pumping the gas doesn't do anything. I see the linkage moving in the engine bay, but there's no throttle response. Not sure if that indicates anything. I'll start to look into lines when I can.

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pluckmyeyeout
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Suddenly won't start

Postby pluckmyeyeout » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:32 am

Just thinking ahead - lines and seals, where would you source in North America/US?


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