Suddenly won't start

Does your Mitsubishi L300 make a strange noise? Need wheel alignment specs?
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pluckmyeyeout
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Suddenly won't start

Postby pluckmyeyeout » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:54 pm

1991 L300 4D56. Just filled up (from a 1/2 tank). Everything running OK. Started it fine, pulled out of the gas station, pulled into the next business up (a metal fabricator, to get a quote on making me one of the Rising Sun triple hitches). Had a chat about how reliable the 4D56 is and how easy it is to fix...

And then go to start it... and... It won't start. I turn the key. There's plenty of crank (I'm not sure that's the right word? It turns over? Again, I'm actually not sure if that's right?) It makes the sound like it's trying to start. There's no smoke, no slight catch, nothing.

So, no fuel right? It seems to me like an electrical issue, as there was no intermediate kind-of-sort-of catching between starting fine and not starting at all. In fact, it sort of feels like a kill switch has been hit. I was able to get home - my neighbor towed me the 1/2 mile back to the house, and I haven't had a chance to start taking a look, but any help as to where to start would be great.

Thanks Delica.ca team - you guys are the best.

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Growlerbearnz
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Re: Suddenly won't start

Postby Growlerbearnz » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:34 pm

It sounds like you're on the right track: it's odd for an engine to crank without any kind of chugging or trying to start.

VEpump.jpg
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With the key turned on, check that there's power at the cutoff solenoid (item 8 in the lovely picture).

Did you check the oil level while filling with diesel, or poke at the engine while chatting about how awesome it is? Cutoff solenoid power comes through the two connectors on top of the injection pump, and they're kind of close to the oil dipstick- one of them might have come loose?

The wiring harness that leads to those connectors can also rub through if it's not properly secured- it runs across the top of the rear firewall, over the top of the engine. An abraded wire tends to cause intermittent cutting out though.

The fuel cut solenoid doesn't have its own fuse. If the battery and oil pressure lights came on when you turned the key on, then the solenoid should have power. if the lights *didn't* come on, it's one of the fusible links in the battery compartment.

If there's power to the solenoid, did your engine crank at normal speed, or did it sound a bit faster than usual? I'd remove the top timing belt cover (or enough bolts that you can pull it back a bit) and check that the timing belt is still in place.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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pluckmyeyeout
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Re: Suddenly won't start

Postby pluckmyeyeout » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:48 am

The fuel cut solenoid doesn't have its own fuse. If the battery and oil pressure lights came on when you turned the key on, then the solenoid should have power. if the lights *didn't* come on, it's one of the fusible links in the battery compartment.

If there's power to the solenoid, did your engine crank at normal speed, or did it sound a bit faster than usual? I'd remove the top timing belt cover (or enough bolts that you can pull it back a bit) and check that the timing belt is still in place.


Only had time to park it in the driveway and checked this morning before work about the batt/oil lights coming on. They both come on (along with the rest of the dash lights). I'll go through later though and get more specific than just looking at the dash.

I honestly don't remember the crank speed, though if I had to guess it might be a tiny bit faster. I'm hoping it's the solenoid, although I was planning to do the timing belt this year at some point, maybe I ought to just do it now.

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pluckmyeyeout
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Re: Suddenly won't start

Postby pluckmyeyeout » Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:00 am

So, I realized yesterday as I went to look at everything that I left my tools at my buddy's place, so going to take another crack today. Just looking at the fuel solenoid cutoff, it's really hard to get to, so I'm thinking I should be taking off some stuff on top to access it? And then, how would I actually check that it's working? With a multi-meter? Where and how? Looks like there's a cap on it too - like a spark plug cap that goes over the nipple. Would I be looking for spark similar to a spark plug?

On another note, I just noticed as I was jiggling wires and trying to visually inspect circuitry that this little double-tabbed stretch of insulated wire is getting really quite warm when I turn the key. When I removed it and turned the key the glow plug relay clicked the first time, but didn't click a second time and it won't turn over when I turn the key all the way. See pictures of the wire attached and detached. Relevant?
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Furi
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Re: Suddenly won't start

Postby Furi » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:09 pm

In case you haven't seen it. Workshop manual has a lot of good info.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... FN6TEFvbUk

Came across below yesterday regarding fuel cutoff solenoid as I was browsing through. From 13 - Fuel. page 44. Not specific to your model but might be similar. Info on your model should be in there somewhere.

Screen Shot 2016-09-28 at 11.54.33 PM.png
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Growlerbearnz
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Re: Suddenly won't start

Postby Growlerbearnz » Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:22 pm

The solenoid is a pain to get to, but it has a connector on the back of the Injection Pump here:
SolenoidConnector.JPG
SolenoidConnector.JPG (52.87 KiB) Viewed 1971 times


It's easier to get to that one than to remove the rubber boot/nipple on top of the solenoid. Some solenoids have a screw connector under the rubber boot, some just have the wire. Unplug the connector and test the voltage on it.

You'd have to test the wire with a multimeter or a test lamp (a 12V bulb with wires. Much cheaper than a multimeter). You'd connect one side of your multimeter/lamp to the plug you've just unplugged, and the other side to something metal that's earthed- battery negative or the engine block is usual. Turn the key on and the meter should show 12V on the wire.


The piece of wire you've photographed is the fusible link that runs the glow plugs and the starter relay- it's not *really* a fuse, but it will be the first thing to burn out if something goes wrong. Interesting that it's getting warm- I've never tested mine, but there's a lot of power going through it so I wouldn't be surprised if it did get warm. The behaviour you describe with that piece removed (glow relay clicks but starter wont turn) is correct.

If the engine was stone cold when it failed to start I might suspect something was up with the glow plugs, but you'd just driven it and it should have been warm enough to run just fine.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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pluckmyeyeout
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Re: Suddenly won't start

Postby pluckmyeyeout » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:21 pm

You'd have to test the wire with a multimeter or a test lamp (a 12V bulb with wires. Much cheaper than a multimeter). You'd connect one side of your multimeter/lamp to the plug you've just unplugged, and the other side to something metal that's earthed- battery negative or the engine block is usual. Turn the key on and the meter should show 12V on the wire.


Danke Growler. I'll tackle that tomorrow. I have a multimeter, so I'll give it a shot.

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pluckmyeyeout
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Re: Suddenly won't start

Postby pluckmyeyeout » Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:14 am

Finally had a chance to get under the... well... not hood... seat... And it's reading 12.38V on the multimeter at the fuel solenoid connector. So that seems right, right? Did peek at the timing belt, and it looks like it's in place. Any other guesses? Next order of business before I just start wholesale replacing parts?

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Re: Suddenly won't start

Postby Growlerbearnz » Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:44 pm

If there's voltage there it's a good sign. One last thing to check on the cutoff solenoid is to press the end of a long screwdriver against a metal part of the solenoid (or the injector pump body, as close to the solenoid as you can), press the handle of the screwdriver against your ear (it's a redneck stethoscope), and get someone to turn the ignition on and off (without cranking!). You should hear the solenoid click quite loudly. If it clicks it's probably good so;

I'd then bleed the injectors to confirm that fuel is getting to them. viewtopic.php?f=91&t=17852&p=132618#p132618

If that worked, I'd try jumping the glow plug bus bar for 6 seconds, removing the jumper lead, and then immediately cranking. You might need an assistant for this one.

BusBar.JPG
BusBar.JPG (59.91 KiB) Viewed 1931 times


Obviously, be **very careful** that the jump lead clamp doesn't touch anything metal except the bus bar. It might be a good idea to put some electrical tape over any exposed parts of the jaws, just in case- it's a bit tight in there.

That'll confirm that you have fuel and glow plugs. There's no reason why it shouldn't start...
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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pluckmyeyeout
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Re: Suddenly won't start

Postby pluckmyeyeout » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:36 pm

press the end of a long screwdriver against a metal part of the solenoid


Right under that cap, you reckon? Basically just below the line leading from #8 on that diagram?

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Re: Suddenly won't start

Postby Growlerbearnz » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:22 pm

Yup, that'll do, otherwise on the big cast iron bit (4) as close to the solenoid as you can. You want the tip of the screwdriver pressed against metal.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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pluckmyeyeout
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Re: Suddenly won't start

Postby pluckmyeyeout » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:28 pm

OK, did the screwdriver test and I'm not hearing anything...

I mean, there is a really loud click which I thought was a glow-plug relay? But didn't hear anything in the screwdriver.

So, either I don't know what to listen for (quite probable lol), or it's busted (right?)

Let's game it out. How to fix/replace?

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pluckmyeyeout
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Re: Suddenly won't start

Postby pluckmyeyeout » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:34 pm


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Growlerbearnz
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Re: Suddenly won't start

Postby Growlerbearnz » Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:28 pm

You should hear the click pretty loudly through the screwdriver if the solenoid is working. I'd still do the bleed procedure on one injector, just to make sure no fuel is coming through. That solenoid is a pain to get at- you'd hate to replace it and not fix the problem. Or, to be more precise, you'd hate *me* if you replaced it and nothing changed... ;-)

The part in the auction looks about right to me. They're fairly common across Mitsubishi injector pumps, I don't know of any odd exceptions.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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pluckmyeyeout
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Re: Suddenly won't start

Postby pluckmyeyeout » Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:23 pm

That solenoid is a pain to get at- you'd hate to replace it and not fix the problem. Or, to be more precise, you'd hate *me* if you replaced it and nothing changed... ;-)


This is literally the first time I've ever tried to fix a car myself. I bought the Deli knowing there would be frustrating times and I'm all for it! I'll bleed the injectors first. Thanks for all the help!


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