Second Click Whayyyyyyy too long

Does your Mitsubishi L300 make a strange noise? Need wheel alignment specs?
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Lapprentis
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Second Click Whayyyyyyy too long

Postby Lapprentis » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:17 am

Hi, so my Van is pretty stock with 6V Glow Plug system. The Van is still starting very well, as usual, battery OK and battery cables well hooked.

At the first start in the morning I can ear the first Click and adout 6-8 seconds later the second one, as usual (here close to freezing point at this time of the year).

Now, if I do stop the engine and start it again a few minutes later (or even right away) so with engine warm, I will ear the first click and the second one about 20 seconds later :o I have never wait soo long since I own the Van...If I do not wait these 20 second and crank the Van it will start fine anywhay, as usual :-D

Any toughts ?

Lapprentis :M

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Growlerbearnz
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Re: Second Click Whayyyyyyy too long

Postby Growlerbearnz » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:40 am

You're sure it's one of the glow relays clicking?

It sounds like your glow computer is having issues. I'd be testing the resistance temperature sender (two-prong connector by the top radiator hose outlet). You'll need a workshop manual for the chart of resistance vs temperature.

If that's fine, it might be time to pull the glow computer and replace those pesky capacitors before they do more damage.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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Lapprentis
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Re: Second Click Whayyyyyyy too long

Postby Lapprentis » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:42 am

Growler, Thanks for your help ! I know you have a lot of knoledges about these Van :-D

Yes, it is the same Second Click as usual that I now have to wait for soooooo long :? whenever the engine is somewhat warm....Meanwhile, as a precaution, I will NOT wait that long to crank the engine.

I plan to have my Van ECU refurbished soon: my Van will be at sleep all winter so plenty of time to di it: hope it will last a few more weeks...Will probably Switch to new Glow Plugs too, can only be a good thing.

Lapprentis :M

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Re: Second Click Whayyyyyyy too long

Postby Growlerbearnz » Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:21 pm

Just be wary of non-genuine glow plugs. The glow computer tests the plugs' resistance to determine how hot they are- some aftermarket plugs have a different resistance (despite being 6V), and the computer refuses to work. Keep your old plugs, just in case.

Genuine Mitsubishi glow plugs (MD092392) are about $50 each. Ouch.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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Lapprentis
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Re: Second Click Whayyyyyyy too long

Postby Lapprentis » Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:22 pm

Growler Bear, I did replace that temperature sensor with new one, and changed GP with New Green top Glow plags (I wanted to do it anywhay) and no improvement as for that second click....So, in a few weeks I will take out the ECU and have it checked and replace those capacitors.
So, start well anywhay (I do not wit for that second click anywhay): first click right away at ignition ON then, if I am waiting for it, have to wait about 20 seconds for the second Click (when engine warm)....

If I do not wait that second click and do start it about 5 seconds after the frst click (engine warm) I will ear the second click later, while engine is running.
Will keep in touch AFTER ECU replaced or repair-upgrade.
BTW, anyone as a suggestion as for where repairing these ECU ?
Much Thanks again
Lapprentis :M

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Morganizer
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Re: Second Click Whayyyyyyy too long

Postby Morganizer » Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:09 pm

I'm not sure what everyone is talking about, regarding the second click. I generally don't hear it, because it's so long after the first, I'm driving by then. According to the signal timing charts in the manual, the second click can happen up to 180 seconds (three minutes) after the first, when the ECU is working correctly. So I don't know why there's so many people on the forum concerned that they don't hear the second click right after the first.

Good advice from a previous comment, check your temperature sensor. 1) because it's easy to check, and 2) because it's easy to replace, and 3) the ECU could be working fine, with bad signal from a faulty temperature sensor (which heats up and cools down all the time, while your ECU resides quite comfortably inside the B-pillar -- practically got it's own hotel room, know what I mean? Not a prime suspect, because it suffers very little wear, compared to the rest of the system.

I believe that if you disconnect the temperature system, the ECU will fire the glow plus every time, to a maximum of 180 seconds (fooling it into thinking the engine is cold, whether it is or not). This is a basic test of the ECU -- you should be able to set your watch by the timing. Mind you, don't leave it like that; running your glow plugs 180 seconds every time, even on hot starts, will wear out your glow plugs quickly. As will running your Delica with a faulty temperature sensor.

It's my understanding that ECU's don't just "wear out and fail" however it seems that deterioration in other parts of the system can put extra wear and tear on the ECU, causing an over-current condition that really does some damage. In my case, I think it all started with a poor connection between the wire and the glow plug bus bar. It's hard to say, because I don't know how the ECU is programmed, but I think it responds to increased resistance at the bus bar by increasing the voltage until a specified current flows. The corrosion in the poor connection may break down and allow high currecnts to flow momentarily, before the ECU reacts, causing large amounts of heat to build up in the ECU. That's my theory anyway.

So the long and the short of it is, before you rip apart the ECU (or if you smell something burnt, and find it inside your ECU) check the rest of they system. Something caused the ECU to fry, and if you don't find out what did it, it will do it again to your newly repaired or (gulp, $1000 replaced) ECU.

Regarding the capacitors: C1 is fairly large, and the more mass it has, the more likely it is to rattle around, putting stress on the solder joins and the component itself. When I replaced mine, I opted for a larger one (i.e. same uF rating, higher voltage: the original is 100uf, 50v, and I think I went for a 100uF, 63v) and I glued it down to the board. This gives the component more "head room" -- probably it never actually sees more than 12v, but engineers overspec components by 2x, 3x, 4x, depending on the application. This circuit may have to tolerate voltage spikes, or 12+12v = 24v when the electric field collapses upon the second click...in which case a 50v capacitor has only 2x headroom whereas a 63v has 2.5x. Dig? And it's not much bigger, and there's room on the board. Not like trying to overspec a cap in an iPhone, arrrghh....

photo here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4139&p=117983#p117983

Come to think of it, maybe my temperature sensor is faulty all this time! I'm still not entirely convinced the readings I get off it are normal, though they don't seem abnormal either. Could you please check yours and tell me what you find? I've got a pencil drawing lower down int he post above, that shows how to measure and what to expect.

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UPDATE

Postby Lapprentis » Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:31 pm

An Update for you guys: Ok, searched the Kijiji adds and found a Repair-Electronic-Guy that changes ALL the Capacotors on my ECU. Though he told me everything was Ok, especially considering it was from a 25 YO Van, it seem that theses componenets do have a life (in our case facing bumps, humidity, etc.) so I should be OK for a while now :o So, Nothing changes as for my longer second click (even with engine warm) but since everything works fine, having change the thermostat too and following Moganizer saying that this maybe normal, I will leave it this way. I Will do another update if needed. :?

Side Subjet: Can someone tell me if our Vans can run without that ECU ? Are those quys with Bypass starting button totally free from the L300 electronics ? Just want to know if they are more Doomsday proof than a recent car as for Sunflares related Electronics vulnerabilities :shock:

Lapprentis :M

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Re: Second Click Whayyyyyyy too long

Postby Growlerbearnz » Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:45 am

Yup, they run just fine without the computer, though they blow a bit more smoke until warmed up.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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Re: Second Click Whayyyyyyy too long

Postby Mimic4 » Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:38 pm

I did some searching around and didn't want to start a whole new thread, but I'm going to take out my glow plug board tomorrow as I am working closer to home for three days, but hopefully if I list a few (similar) symptoms someone can help isolate what really is going on?

The first click happens during cold starting, but its really only 3 or so seconds before the 2nd click engages and doesn't often get it warm enough. (Wasn't a problem until recently with the cold weather).

Infrequently, but more occasionally, after starting, the timer with "flip-flop" and click on and off with about a 1 second interval, several times before settling out.

Board or temp sensor? Replaced glow plugs last year with the expensive proper ones.

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Re: Second Click Whayyyyyyy too long

Postby Growlerbearnz » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:48 pm

The short initial click (though 3 seconds is about what mine does at 20C) could be the computer board or the temperature sensor. I'd test the sensor first, since it's easier to get to than the computer.

The clicking off and on after starting is normal, it's the computer pulsing the glow plugs to help combustion until it warms up enough to run smoothly. You'll find that the period of the clicking changes depending on how fast the engine is running. On my engine it stops after a minute or so.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.

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Re: Second Click Whayyyyyyy too long

Postby Mimic4 » Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:29 pm

I love the click-time survey, I can't wait to get off work in 30m and give it a shot, then upload.

Thanks again for the reply, I didn't realize the pulsing click-on/click-off.

The van is definitely harder to start than it needs to be now that it's cold. 4-5 cranks with ~30% throttle.

I suspect it could be the thermometer then, I read if I disconnect it the glow plugs should automatically stay on longer, up to 180s??

I did a little search but maybe somebody is more aware of what the test procedure is for the temp sensor? If not I have the online service manual at home :)

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Re: Second Click Whayyyyyyy too long

Postby TieMyShoe » Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:20 pm

So I just found an interesting fault in my electrical system. My GP timer stopped working a few weeks back, everything tested fine according the book, replaced the glow plugs nothing...

Next I installed my pyro, what I found was the glow plugs would quickly click and the gauge would jump. This told me the glow plugs were ground via my gauge.. solution. Add a new ground strap to the engine, glow plugs are now functioning again.

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Lapprentis
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Second Click Whayyyyyyy too long

Postby Lapprentis » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:18 am

Whitout having made any mechanical modification, back to normal (3-4s) on its own as fast as when it changes for longer time between the clicks..... :?

UPDATE: it last for 1 day only: then back to Looooooong second click :?

Lapprentis :M
Last edited by Lapprentis on Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lapprentis
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Second Click Whayyyyyyy too long

Postby Lapprentis » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:30 am

UPDATE SOLVED

Well, I manage to live with that problem for more than a year, I was now to +- 1 minute (and more) for the second click to happened and then another symptom appear: even after the secong click, the starter would crank nice and strong but was hard to start (long cranking). Battery was strong. I decided to change the starter relays (all 3) and it solved all the problems/symptoms 8-) Now back to 3-4 seconds second click and easy fast starting :-) I can not explain the details about the problem I had but the relay the closest to the driver's door seems to be the faulty one: it show some outside rust :shock:

Lapprentis :M
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